Base and Rings for the 45-70

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Bill Daniel

New member
Has anyone of you TFLers mounted a scope on your 45-70 rifles. My Henry H010 uses the same base as the Marlin 1895. If you have what ring height did you choose? My intended scope is the Leupold FXii 4x33. Any problems with getting "shook loose"?
Thanks
Bill
 
Properly mounted scopes don't shake loose.
Degrease screws and holes, and tighten them well, and it will hold for many years

Ring height should be as low as possible while allowing clearance for the scope, so with a 33 mm, you should be able to get by with lows
 
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Also, be sure to degrease the inside of the rings & the scope tube.

Some folks go so far as to apply either rosin or Loc-tite to the inside of the rings, on hard-kickers.



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Leupold steel mount and rings....I mount my scopes as close to the barrel as possible....
 

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I own a number of 45-70s, and due to old eyes I have some kind of optics on all of them. I've never had one come loose. Make sure you degrease the screws and holes before doing anything. You can use alcohol to do this. Get some BLUE Loctite (not any other color) and put a very minute amount on the threaded surfaces before inserting and tightening down. BLUE Loctite is for vibration, it's not a "thread locker" like the RED Loctite is. You can get the screws back out with little more effort than if it wasn't there but it doesn't glue the screws in. I use it on every gun, including rimfires, and have never had a scope come loose. I've been doing this for almost fifty years and have done hundreds of guns over those years with no problems. Also, don't over tighten the screws. If you don't have experience doing this, get a torque wrench and use it. There are callouts for all of these mounts telling how many inch pounds to use to install. If you don't want to bother with that, just get them "good and snug".
 
All of this is good advice. If you want the closest possible fit, you might consider lapping the rings. I've done that once, and while it's a moderate amount of work, it really allows a full contact fit of the scope to the rings, and won't mar the finish of the scope at all.
On my Marlin, I didn't lap them, just installed them and snugged everything down tight. The scope hasn't moved, and shoots 1 1/2" groups at 100yds with ease.
I don't load "firewall" type loads, however. Most of my loads are in the mild to medium category. Most of them launching a 405gr bullet at about 1200 fps or so.
 
The .45-70 is actually not the type recoiler that is hard on scopes. It is a slower developing recoil.
Hornet, the benefits of lapping Warne rings are debatable. According to Warne, never do it. I either use use Burris signature or I lap standard rings. I have three rifles with Warnes, and I have not lapped any of them. I have talked to people who have lapped them and most were not impressed. Warne is a rugged ring but its not really a precision ring.
 
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In over fifty years of doing a LOT of shooting, I've never lapped a set of rings. In my opinion it's just another gimmick to get the money out of your wallet and into their cash register. If the scope sits in the bottom of the rings and is even all the way around you don't need to lap. If it's sitting cockeyed, you either have a bad receiver or bad base. Fix that problem if you ever find it. None of my scopes have ring marks on them either. Buy quality rings and you will never have a problem. Buy Chinese rings and you very well may have one. Correct on the Warne rings as posted above and the Burris Signature rings too. Leupold are also good. Just read the package....if it says "made in China" don't use them.
 
No Second Best, I can guarantee you one thing about lapping. It is not a gimmick. If you mount a scope on a bench rifle without lapping the rings, that rifle will not be competitive unless it is just a fluke of smithing where everything was in absolute perfect alignment. Burris signature is the exception to that rule. The torque the unlapped rings put the tube under are detrimental to accuracy. Also, if you enjoy having ring marks on your scopes, be sure not to lap. Do all you want to your base and rings, and I guarantee you that if you put a lapping bar into them you will have at best 60% contact, probably 30% contact on average. It costs about 25 cents to lap a set of rings. It is by far not taking much cash out of my pocket.
 
No Second Best, I can guarantee you one thing about lapping. It is not a gimmick. If you mount a scope on a bench rifle without lapping the rings, that rifle will not be competitive unless it is just a fluke of smithing where everything was in absolute perfect alignment. Burris signature is the exception to that rule. The torque the unlapped rings put the tube under are detrimental to accuracy. Also, if you enjoy having ring marks on your scopes, be sure not to lap.
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I've got a lot of guns and scopes.....no ring marks on any of them. Enjoy your opinion and I'll stick to mine. Also, I didn't see in the OP where he was going to use a lever gun for bench rest shooting?

Bill Daniel, here's a good link on how to mount a scope. It's a Leupold tutorial. If you like it, they have a "Part 2" that you can look at also. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBNJUgCN0rE
 
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BTW - "blue" (color) Loctite usually is sold in red-colored plastic bottles, so don't get confused by the blue/red thing.

IDK what color bottles "red" Loctite is sold in, as I've never bought any.



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Second best, you said lapping was a scam to lighten pockets. Ask any builder of high quality rifles and they will set you straight. I do not care to change your opinion. I am simply pointing out that you have given absolute wrong information to another shooter. The benefits of lapping are not opinion, they are confirmed fact.
 
Second best, you said lapping was a scam to lighten pockets. Ask any builder of high quality rifles and they will set you straight. I do not care to change your opinion. I am simply pointing out that you have given absolute wrong information to another shooter. The benefits of lapping are not opinion, they are confirmed fact.
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I'll go with Leupold on this one. Check the link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBNJUgCN0rE . Again, we're not talking about a bench rest rifle. I think Midway has a video out also. Same deal, no lapping.
 
Midway also has a video out showing how to lap rings.
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Do you suppose it's because they sell the equipment to lap them with? Duh! You need to let it go. Your point just isn't valid in this situation. We're talking about a lever gun and you're talking about a bench rest rifle. I"m not sure you're convincing too many people with your opinion. I'm done responding to the whole thing, others can make up their own mind. You seem intent on getting the last word on this so go ahead, have it. I think enough's been said on the subject.
 
You made a blanket statement that is false. Installing without lapping is basic. Installing using lapping is advanced. I guess they offer standard instructions because they realize most people are not willing to put the effort into scope mounting to do it the right way. Lapping is the best way to mount scopes, with the exception of Burris Signature. It is a well known fact. Hunting or bench rest makes no difference. Bench rest is simply accurate enough to always make the deficiencies of improper mounting obvious. I shoot with a Leupold factory engineer and factory rep. His rings are lapped. I also shoot with a Night Force rep. His rings are lapped. Guess neither of them is educated as you on how to mount scopes. I actually started lapping because of the Leupold rep. My rings on my .30-30 Winchester are lapped.
 
My suggestion to lap the rings wasn't about improving accuracy, it was about improving metal to metal contact, which will definitely help keep a scope from slipping in the rings.
I cannot speak to Warne rings, as I have never even seen a set. I usually buy a "normally" priced set of Weaver style rings, and MOST of them are not finished out glass smooth, but show some (usually very slight) machining marks. This, along with possible burs or slightly rolled edges of rings will most definitely leave marks on a scope.
I suppose you could line the inside of the rings with black electrician's tape and get a great slide-proof fit, as well. I've never tried it, but have always been curious about how it would work out.

For those that think lapping is a waste of time/money.... fine. Don't do yours. But like Reynolds said, it is a proven procedure that can improve the fit of a scope to a rifle.
 
But like Reynolds said, it is a proven procedure that can improve the fit of a scope to a rifle.
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Good rings don't need "improvement" to fit properly, and marks on a scope don't matter unless you move them from gun to gun.

Put them on and leave them, and you'll never see any marks
 
Good rings do need improvement. The odds that action drilling, base manufacture, ring fit to base, and ring manufacture are all perfect is astronomical. Put just a little bit of torque on a scope tube, and the groups open up. Most rifles are not accurate enough to show that problem, but the super accurate rifles will confirm that rather quickly.
 
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