Roamin_Wade
Moderator
Is there a way to just visually inspect a barrel to see if it is shot out or been allowed to get too hot?
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Barrel shot out? Barrel half shot out?
- Thread starter Roamin_Wade
- Start date
Roamin_Wade
Moderator
I’ve got a bore scope but with all the different ways to cut rifling it’s hard to tell if the land-to-groove profile is as it should be or if it’s worn. I’ve got some snap gauges and small hole measuring things (worked extensively in machine shops) but it’s almost impossible to measure a structure like twisted rifling with just two points. It really calls for a 3 bladed inside bore micrometers.
"Shot out" means it is no longer shooting well, even after an in-depth cleaning. There is no"half shot out", because there is no way to tell when a given barrel will start not shooting well. I have seen barrels that were "shot out" that had 10" of burned throat, and I have seen barrels that were "shot out" with less than 1" of burned throat. Part of the equation is the shooter who dumps a barrel when the group size doubles, and part of it is the bullets that will no longer fly true through a given barrel.
Roamin_Wade
Moderator
It seems like something called “slugging the barrel” with lead measures something but I don’t recall if that’s the way to check the barrel for proper headspace or the mean inside diameter of both the grooves and the lands.
Jim Watson
New member
Slugging the barrel is done to measure bore and groove dimensions. I guess Harry Pope could feel the state of wear by pushing a slug through, but it would be a very rough reading.
As Scorch says, the only measure of barrel wear is how well the rifle shoots. One target shooter has posted that it is all done when his group size increases by 50%. A target shooter will keep records and have an idea of the remaining accuracy life.
A guy was bringing his bore scope to matches and would give you a look inside your barrel for $10. But if you did not know what you were seeing, it did not do much good.
As Scorch says, the only measure of barrel wear is how well the rifle shoots. One target shooter has posted that it is all done when his group size increases by 50%. A target shooter will keep records and have an idea of the remaining accuracy life.
A guy was bringing his bore scope to matches and would give you a look inside your barrel for $10. But if you did not know what you were seeing, it did not do much good.
Don Fischer
New member
I think a lot of people worry about a shot out barrel needlessly. My 30-06 has a pretty bad barrel, gunsmith checked it out and said so. So for a while I spent looking for somewhere to get a re-bore to 338-06 on it. Funny thing though is I kept shooting that shot out barrel and kept getting just over 1" loads with it. Finally figured it out. Nothing wrong with that barrel, it's a hunting rifle!
Roamin_Wade
Moderator
When I look through my borescope at my rifling in some Guns, the landslook like they are coated with brass and they have little crazing cracks, or at least they look like very tiny cracks. When I look through the barrel like one does with the bolt out of the gun towards a light or window, etc., it looks perfect! Nice and shiny, clean rifling with well defined lands and grooves. I’m wondering if all barrels look like mine from a borescope.
I’m wondering if all barrels look like mine from a borescope.
No, not all of them.
Is there a way to just visually inspect a barrel to see if it is shot out or been allowed to get too hot
Some reloaders can and there are a lot of reloaders that can not. I purchased 4 rifles from one of the auction forms; I was not promised anything, I purchased the small stack of rifles for the sum of all of the parts. One was a Sauer Mauser that had been converted to 7.62 NATO with a 29?" long barrel. Another was a Mexican Mauser 7mm57, another was a last ditch 98 Mauser that looked like it had been hot dipped with shoe polish for a stock stain, after that it got worst.
And then there was the beauty, it was a 6.5 Japanese, it was the first to be road tested. I loaded up a few then took it to the range. I covered the receiver and part of the barrel with a white rag then fired the rifle. I removed the white rag and examined the rag like it was used as a death cover in Tehran. Sure enough the two gas escape holes show up as two black spots the opening in top of the receiver created a black outline.
The barrel was shot out, the bullet was so loose in the barrel it was impossible to create enough pressure to expand the case enough to seal the chamber.
F. Guffey
If you're talking about your own guns, then you can tell if they're shot out by shooting them. No need to use a borescope.
If you're talking about buying guns, that's a different story. You can tell, to some extent, and after some experience, what kind of a "life" the barrel has lived, but even a rough bore might shoot pretty well, and the fact that a bore looks pristine doesn't guarantee the rifle is going to be really accurate.
If you're talking about buying guns, that's a different story. You can tell, to some extent, and after some experience, what kind of a "life" the barrel has lived, but even a rough bore might shoot pretty well, and the fact that a bore looks pristine doesn't guarantee the rifle is going to be really accurate.
I defined that the barrel was "shot out" on my Stevens 200 in 7mm-08AI by me reloading for it.
The pencil thin barrel still shot just fine, holding 3/4 MOA at all my shooting distances. (3 shot groups).
But by loading, i could keep track of the throat errosion. When the 140gr. Berger VLD was only going halfway down the case neck to seat it 0.005" off the lands, it was time.
Even 139gr. SSTs, and 140gr Ballistic Tips were beyond 2.900".
This was with me putting about 5,000 rounds through it, and i bought it used to begin with.
Sounds like your looking too hard for issues. KISS!!!
The pencil thin barrel still shot just fine, holding 3/4 MOA at all my shooting distances. (3 shot groups).
But by loading, i could keep track of the throat errosion. When the 140gr. Berger VLD was only going halfway down the case neck to seat it 0.005" off the lands, it was time.
Even 139gr. SSTs, and 140gr Ballistic Tips were beyond 2.900".
This was with me putting about 5,000 rounds through it, and i bought it used to begin with.
Sounds like your looking too hard for issues. KISS!!!
Roaman: Give us some details of what gun you have, caliber, history.
Slugging is for variable grove/quality variation barrels trying to find what that model was.
Seldom is a barrel shot out that slugging will tell you.
If its gone, the throat is eaten down the barrel and to the point you can't seat a bullet long enough for the right grip and or none.
Doing some bullet seating tests will tell you a lot.
More or less if it is way out, its been eroded, if the bullet falls out before you contact the lands with a bullet, its a goner.
Slugging is for variable grove/quality variation barrels trying to find what that model was.
Seldom is a barrel shot out that slugging will tell you.
If its gone, the throat is eaten down the barrel and to the point you can't seat a bullet long enough for the right grip and or none.
Doing some bullet seating tests will tell you a lot.
More or less if it is way out, its been eroded, if the bullet falls out before you contact the lands with a bullet, its a goner.
Roamin_Wade
Moderator
Two guns. One is a Savage Model 99F (featherweight) in 243 that was made in ‘53. The second one is a Mauser k98 in 8mm NAZI era. The 243 will start shooting all over the paper after about 4 shots and the k98 has a fairly rough looking bore. It’s not shiny and smooth but it’s not way out of accuracy.
Is it a good way to check throat shape by spreading some Dykem bluing gel on the projectile and insert and remove it and see if there is a ring around the projectile where it touched the edge of the throat? More basic, do all bullets touch the throat edge when chambered?
Is it a good way to check throat shape by spreading some Dykem bluing gel on the projectile and insert and remove it and see if there is a ring around the projectile where it touched the edge of the throat? More basic, do all bullets touch the throat edge when chambered?
Take a fired case, crimp with pliers, or collet sizer till bullet is held snugly. Just beyond finger tight.
Insert bullet, leaving it long.
Chamber.
Do NOT pull the trigger!
Carefully remove. Measure with a good set of calipers.
Do this at least 3 times.
Measure from base, to bullet tip. ( i know it can be off by about 0.005").
This measurement is your cartridge over all length to the lands for that particular make/model/weight bullet.
Typically you would subtract 0.020" for your loaded COAL.
Not it can be longer than SAAMI or CIP length. As long as it's seated fully in the case neck.
Insert bullet, leaving it long.
Chamber.
Do NOT pull the trigger!
Carefully remove. Measure with a good set of calipers.
Do this at least 3 times.
Measure from base, to bullet tip. ( i know it can be off by about 0.005").
This measurement is your cartridge over all length to the lands for that particular make/model/weight bullet.
Typically you would subtract 0.020" for your loaded COAL.
Not it can be longer than SAAMI or CIP length. As long as it's seated fully in the case neck.
I have observed a couple of 243 Win barrels being shot out at approximately 1500 rounds.
Yours was made in 1953. I would expect it to be shot out unless it was delegated to closet duty.
I have a Mauser 98k that was WWII vintage and it still shoots good. The barrel is worn, but still usable.
Yours was made in 1953. I would expect it to be shot out unless it was delegated to closet duty.
I have a Mauser 98k that was WWII vintage and it still shoots good. The barrel is worn, but still usable.
Most reliable bullet check method is to use a sized case (no powder, no primer)
That way if it sticks a bit it does not move.
You load one .100 long (in your case I would seat it as far out and still has some grip_, gently close the bolt (very gently) when it encounters resistance, pull back.
It may stick in the lands a bit (in your case maybe not at all) - you just keep seating a bit deeper until it closes without a stick. If you seat .020, you will be very close to real, not spot on but you can play with it from there.
In your case with a suspect 243, seat way long and move larger increments if needed.
Seated way long may not touch anything if its shot out.
Its the throat and first area of the lands that get eaten away.
Slugging tells you someplace in the bore what the minimum size is.
Depending on how hot it was shot, a 243 can take out a barrel in 2500 rounds.
As its a lever and possibly a deer gun, maybe not.
The K98 would have been good for 5-10,000 rounds.
That way if it sticks a bit it does not move.
You load one .100 long (in your case I would seat it as far out and still has some grip_, gently close the bolt (very gently) when it encounters resistance, pull back.
It may stick in the lands a bit (in your case maybe not at all) - you just keep seating a bit deeper until it closes without a stick. If you seat .020, you will be very close to real, not spot on but you can play with it from there.
In your case with a suspect 243, seat way long and move larger increments if needed.
Seated way long may not touch anything if its shot out.
Its the throat and first area of the lands that get eaten away.
Slugging tells you someplace in the bore what the minimum size is.
Depending on how hot it was shot, a 243 can take out a barrel in 2500 rounds.
As its a lever and possibly a deer gun, maybe not.
The K98 would have been good for 5-10,000 rounds.
You load one .100 long (in your case I would seat it as far out and still has some grip_, gently close the bolt (very gently) when it encounters resistance, pull back.
The best way? It has to be almost impossible for a reloader to push the bullet out of the case; I say that because very few reloaders can co it. If somehow they could manage the technique they could get all of the bullet hold they possible. They could seat the bullet first then push the bullet out to the lands and quit pushing when the bullet hit the lands.
After removing the case with the bullet from the chamber they could use the test case as a transfer when adjusting the seating die, when finished they would look like someone that knew what they were doing.
In rare occasions I have pushed bullets out of the case before the bullet contacted the rifling; meaning there was no way to seat a bullet long enough to contact the rifling.
F. Guffey
Is there a way to just visually inspect a barrel to see if it is shot out
I have 6 barrels that are shot out, I do not get hung-up on the shot-out part because most of the barrel damage has been caused by corrosive ammo and neglect. Not the upside but I have no problem cutting the barrel up for chamber gages.
F. Guffey