Ballistics Fingerprinting

O

Oscar

New member
Dear Friends,

First, let's get one thing straight: I'm not one of those "moderates" that believes in "reasonable gun control". That's all a huge distraction away from effective law enforcement and punishment of criminals -- the most effective CRIME control measure IMHO.

That being said, am I naive in not disagreeing with this ballistic fingerprinting issue? Theoretically, it would not require gun owner registration; it only requires a registration of gun serial numbers. Assuming some form of gun purchase paperwork remains part of our landscape, this measure doesn't seem to be an extension of the government's intrusion on our 2nd amendment rights, and potentially is an effective law enforcement tool.

OK, everybody, have at me! Just remember, this is an honest question, not a political statement, and I can easily be convinced this is a BAD idea.

Oscar
 
Oscar, While ballistic fingerprinting IS a bad idea, it's rather easy to change the ballistic fingerprint of a specific firearm. So it's not of major concern to me anyway. It's like registration, it does nothing to deter the criminal and, as I said it's too easy to change.

Mark / FL
 
MAryland is the first state to implement ballistic fingerprinting

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Beginning Oct. 1, new handguns shipped into Maryland must include the casing of a bullet test fired by the manufacturer. Gun dealers will have
to provide the casing, along with the name of the person buying the gun, to
state police when the weapon is sold.[/quote]

if other states implement MD style fingerprinting then it is NATIONAL HANDGUNOWNER REGISTRATION

dZ
 
Some problems with "fingerprinting:"

1. Guns don't have fingers, last time I checked, so "fingerprinting" is a misnomer. IMNSHO it's a clever term intended to dupe people into accepting the myth of Guns As Sentient Beings.

2. It establishes a clear trail from manufacturer -> distributor -> retailer -> consumer; otherwise it's useless. Example: a 9mm case is recovered from a crime scene. The Feebies put it into their system, and they get a match to Glock Model 26 serial # yadda. The Feebies call Glock. Glock looks up the serial number in their database and says "Yeah, we sold that one to RSR on [fill in the date]." Feebies call RSR, who looks it up and says, "That gun went to Joe Friendly Firearms Sales. Here's their address and phone number." Feebies get a warrant to look at EVERY 4473 in the shop. They get a match: YOU (as well as getting info on every other gun sold by Joe Friendly). Never mind that you sold the gun privately two months ago. YOUR name is now permanently attached to that gun. Long story short: YOU are going to prison, unless you can prove your innocence.

"Fingerprinting" takes the burden of proof off of the accuser and places it on the accused. It accomplishes nothing but the harassment (real or potential) of legal gun owners. It's registration, and we all know where that leads.
 
I think the ballistic fingerprinting can lead to government abuse. It sounds good on paper, like these things usually do, but the potential for misuse is too great. I can't believe there isn't more resistance from gun owners.
 
If they find a case from my guns anywhere, it ain't gonna match up to anything in their files. Not if I've owned it more than a day anyway. Seems to be pretty much of a non-issue to me. We can still buy emory paper, files and the such in Texas.


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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
 
Oscar, it`s just a little more of the gun control Camels nose poking into our tents.Once it gets it`s head in it will start spiting on you, when it gets it`s @ss in it will be all over with. You will have Camel dung all over you. Now I don`t know what Camel dung smels like, and I don`t care to find out.

That Damn Camel is already spiting, so the head may already be in.
 
OK here goes my thought process:
1) Ballistaprinting is a useless tool as far as crime fighting goes. I can go out this afternoon and buy a new barrel, new extractor, ejector, firing pin, file, emory board, dremmel tool... and completely change the print of my gun. I can also go out and fire a couple of thousand rounds and significantly change the print of my gun. So as far as crime figthing goes, its is utterly useless feel good legislation.
2) "Beginning Oct. 1, new handguns shipped into Maryland must include the casing of a bullet test fired by the manufacturer. Gun dealers will have to provide the casing, along with the name of the person buying the gun, to state police when the weapon is sold." We now have State mandated handgun owner registration. The dealer supplied the casing for a specific gun along with the name of the owner to the state. But all this is useless as far as crime fighting goes. So why do it??? Feel good legislation or register before confiscation ala Kali and the SKS's.
3) Future: we WILL have a person go on a killing spree with a modified gun. Next will come the spare parts registration, ro gunsmith control. The we WILL have someone go on a killing spree with a very used gun. Then we will have the once a year safety inspection of your gun ala cars (which will be the same logic used in the argument for it)

Not only are the short term effects inconsequential with regards to crime, but the down side is that you now have handgun owner registration in MA, contrary to federal law. Wanna bet that the ATF, FBI and all the other alphabet soup agencies will have acess to the state's database. If more states come along these lines we will have a national database of handgun owners made up of 50 seperate databases. They just found a loophole to get areound teh Brady restrictions re centralized registration.

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"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
Oscar,
Say you're at the range, and a shady character picks up some of your empties. He then commits a crime, picks up his cases, and drops a few of YOUR's at the crime scene. Now Law Enforcement comes for YOU, and you get to go through the expense of hiring an attorney, going through questioning, and maybe sitting in a cell. I mean, YOUR cases where found at the scene, so YOU MUST be guilty, right?

Of course, IF an intact bullet is recovered, ballistics should prove your innocense, but how long, and how much money, will it now take for you to recover your firearms (that where confiscated when you where arrested)?

This whole thing is just way too easy to abuse.
 
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Dear Friends,
First, let's get one thing straight: I'm not one of those "moderates" that believes in "reasonable population control". That's all a huge distraction away from effective law enforcement and punishment of criminals -- the most effective CRIME control measure IMHO.

That being said, am I naive in not disagreeing with this "surveillance cameras in home and tracking implants" issue? Theoretically, it would not require active work to maintain; it only requires that government install a few little cameras in your house. Assuming those cameras up on the poles are already monitoring everything we do, this measure doesn't seem to be an extension of the government's intrusion on our individual liberties, and potentially is an effective law enforcement tool.

OK, everybody, have at me! Just remember, this is an honest question, not a political statement, and I can easily be convinced this is a BAD idea.

Battler.
 
GusGus beat me to much of my input.

Human fingerprints are unique, the only one who can leave them at a crime scene is the person with the fingers. Bad guy can leave red herring cases at a crime scene. Been done before to throw off the investigators. Also, the officer that you pissed off can do a drop for you. Just like the mystry roach etc.

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
Gus, actual ballistics evidence that is usable in court is so rare that many jurisdictions have never seen any. It's very hard to recover a bullet that can be matched to a specific gun. Contrary to what TV and teh movies show you.

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Tonkin Gulf Yacht Club
68-70
 
Don't forget that "ballistic Fingerprinting" every gun and recording that information is going to cost A LOT of money. That being said, your taxes will be used to pay for the backdoor registration of your firearms. Kill the income tax and the power of govt. will plummet...


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The first step is registration, the second step is confiscation, the final step is subjugation.
 
It sounds as thought the state of maryland will be in the catbird seat IF someone shoots someone with his/her REVOLVER and thoughtfully leves the empties for the police.
crankshaft
nralife, goa, jpfo, fcsa, smvfm
paranoia is a good thing to have when they're actually out to get You!
 
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