Ball vs Hollow point for .45 ACP self def.

J

johnblackstone

New member
At .45 velocities (230 grain) and standard loads, is the hollow point appreciably more effective against a BG? How does clothing affect the hollow point vs the ball? Are we really getting expansion from the HP from a 4 inch barrell?

If there is a 1% more chance of a feeding problem with HP, do any of you carry ball instead?

How do you view the tradeoff??
 
The way I look at it is ,if it doesn`t expand then you got a round that is just as good as hardball,if it does then you got a much better round.In the shorter barrelled guns i like to use the lightter weight bullets in the +p variety to hopefully make up for the differance.I would just get some good factory rounds like the federal hydrashock in the 165 weight or one the of the excellent gold dots or sxt`s

killer45auto
 
also the premuim hollow points like the federals feed extremely well also ,including the gold dots.I have never had a problem with them .

killer45auto
 
I stick with 230 grain standard velocity Federal Hydrashoks, 230 grain Remington Golden Sabers, and 230 grain hardball in my Colt CCO. I have never had a stoppage in ANY M1911 with these rounds. I have had problems with 185 grain stuff. I carry the hollowpoints in the first magazine loaded up in the handgun; the magazine change has 230 grain ball.
 
Go w/the hollow point. If your concerned about expansion, try some of the new +P loads from Corbon and Triton. Should be others out there too. 185gr at around 1100 fps from a 4 1/4 inch barrel. As already stated any of the SXT, Golden Saber or Gold Dot loads will probably do well also.
 
I agree with several other posters.

For personal defense I use 230 grain Federal Hydra-Shok in both my Kimber stainless Custom/Classic 1911-A1 and my Sig P-220. The shape of the .45 ACP Hydra-Shok so closely approximates 230 grain FMJ rounds that I have NEVER had a failure to feed or a misfire in either weapon.

Upon impact, if the round fails to expand I have the same efficacy as with 230 grain ball loads. Therefore, with the 230 grain Hydra-Shok .45 ACP round I potentially have something to gain and nothing to lose.



[This message has been edited by RWK (edited April 04, 2000).]
 
First, dont feed into the Marshall/Sanow BS.

Carry what you feel most confidant with. But be more concerned with "shot placement" rather than the brand of ammunition you're carrying.

Keep in mind that if a Federal Hydra-Shok JHP becomes plugged with clothing, its going to become instant hardball anyway...
 
I believe it was either this months or last months edition of Hangun magazine that did a "Top 10 Self Defense Loads". While I don't agree with all of their data, the Hydra Shok 230gr was the best of the .45ACP loads. They commented that the HardBall was noticably absent from their list, as it did not perform that well. The data used was from actual shootings, not ballistic gel.
Bill
 
First,good shot placement *should* be a GIVEN,ball or hollowpoint makes no difference where accuracy is concerned. Second,I`ll take a good hollowpoint anyday. Real life shootings have shown without a shadow of a doubt that they are far more effective than ball. If you don`t like Marshal/Sanow that`s up to you just check the #s with ANY law enforcement agency and you`ll see a clear trend. For that matter the next few critters you shoot try some with ball and some with a good HP and see for yourself what they do and don`t do to living tissue. Hollowpoints are almost always much more destructive. As far as reliability is concerned,if your carry gun isn`t reliable enought to feed it anything but ball ammo IMHO you should get it fixed or get another gun. I like the 230 Fed.Hydrashok but from my P-97`s relatively short barrel I feel it looses it`s edge. I carry Triton 200gr.+Ps to ensure good expansion. I`m not overly concerned with the hollowpoint becoming plugged. The industry standard is 5 layers of heavy denim. Anyone here go around wearing 5 pairs or jeans or 5 denim jackets at the same time? I`ve tried a few tests of my own using shirts and coats etc. and have yet to see a hollowpoint get plugged so that it wouldn`t expand. This is another region where the real life stats come into play. Not suprisingly in a great majority of recorded shootings the BGs are wearing clothes. :) Basically while I feel ball will get the job done,hollowpoints will do it better. Marcus
 
IF YOUR PISTOL WILL FEED THEM RELIABLY then 200 grain or230 grain hollow points are best. If not, stick with FMJs.


"They all fall to hard ball!"
 
Clint Smith has publicly stated he uses 230gr ball. He believes in absolute reliability over any expansion. I still carry Hydra-Shoks.
 
In the short barrel, might as well use 230 gr. hardball if you do not go with the lighter +p loads as 230 hp will not expand reliably at the velocities the short barrel is delivering them. However, they will still act like hardball, and may achieve partial expansion depending on the circumstances. Just costs more to shoot them and reliability is always a concern with hp and the 1911. I like the 200 gr. soft points myself as well as the high speed frangible rounds, especially the RBCD rounds, although the magsafe swat is excellent.
 
There's no egregious 45 ACP ammo out there. All of it produces quick stops.In 30 years plus of toting GMs,I've used a variety of ammo, ranging from Black Talons to handloads of 6.8 gr of Unique behind a B&M 200 gr SWC. All have functioned fine in those particular weapons.

Instead of chasing after a load that will get you 92.5% one shot stops instead of your current 92.1% load, find out which load groups tightest at 100% reliability and use that.My pet GM likes Silvertips....
 
What Dave McC said. I prefer the Federal PDA for mine, but I have no problem with ball, either.
I love the .45, it makes big holes no matter what.....
A lot of the "designer" loads these days are tailored so that the HP's open at lower velocities as common with shorter barrels, but will still open reliably with longer barrels, too. There's really not that much practical difference between, say, 848fps & 779fps given the same bullet weight.

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Shoot straight regards, Richard at The Shottist's Center http://forums.delphi.com/m/main.asp?sigdir=45acp45lc
 
First, feed reliability.

If HP's feed 100%, then choices are: Golden Saber, Hydra-Shok, Gold Dot.

I prefer loading the 230g Golden Saber to 800fps (for personal defense).

Ball is only for guns that won't feed with anything else.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"



[This message has been edited by WESHOOT2 (edited April 02, 2000).]
 
Here is my take:

If you have to shoot someone or something, I would much prefer the stopping power of a .70" projectile, (good hollow point expansion) over a .451" projectile.

Simple physics.

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.45 Super... Fat and FAST...

"No provision in our Constitution ought to be dearer to man than that which protects the rights of conscience against the enterprises of the civil authority" - Thomas Jefferson

[This message has been edited by Desert Dog (edited April 02, 2000).]
 
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