Ball size for a Pietta made 1858 Remington?

C

ClemBert

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I'm reading conflicting info out there. Does the standard 1858 Remington made by Pietta (such as the one sold by Cabellas) use a .451 ball or a .454 ball? What have you been using and what did your instructions tell you?

The reason I ask is because my buddy recently purchased a Pietta made 1858 Remington from Cabellas. I was placing an order for swagged lead balls last week for my ROA (.457) and my Uberti Remington (.454) and asked him if he wanted me to order some lead balls for him. He indicated that he thought the manual said his Remington uses .451 lead balls and asked me to verify before ordering. Well, I did a quick check by looking at a MidwayUSA catalog and initial indications were that he was correct, .451. So I placed the order with this info. Well, today I was curious to see what his manual looked like so I found a Pietta manual online at http://www.pietta.us/products/Muzzleloadinguns/Remington/index.html. According to that manual his revolver should use the .454. So now I figured I screwed up and ordered the wrong lead balls for him. Well, I started doing a forum search on this topic and it seems like the data is all over the place. Some people report the Cabellas issued manual says .451. Apparently, this is an old question that has been asked before or discussed a number of times. Perhaps the issue has to do with when the Pietta was manufactured. Perhaps the older ones had a looser tolerance than the new CNC manfactured ones.

Maybe someone with the newer Cabellas sold 1858 Remington made by Pietta can clue me in. I know a bunch of you bought this firearm recently from Cabellas as they had it on sale at a great price...$189.99. Have you fired it yet? Please report your recent findings.
 
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Well, you kinda got to let the gun tell you, but both of mine use .454 balls. As long as they shave a ring of lead when you force them into the chambers, you're in good shape. If they don't, go up a size (unless you've chamfered the cylinder mouth, then they won't shave a ring). You want them tight all the way around to seal the chamber and reduce the risk of a chainfire.
 
Yes I understand this. I guess I'm trying to figure out if I screwed the order up before the package arrives tomorrow. Dang, I sure hope I don't have to eat the .451's and give him my .454's I ordered for my Uberti.
 
As for having to eat the .451s, I wouldn't be so sure. My Pietta 1858 shoots the 451s fine. The ring isn't as pronounced as the 454s, but it does compress the ball.

Personally, I shoot the 454s. But I also shoot the 454s out of my ROA. When I seat the 454s in the ROA, it gives me a nice ring. That may be caused by all the rust build up.:D:D

But let your friend try it. It may work to his liking. He can also use some of your 454s to see if it works out better. But for plinking and getting use to the revolver, it should be fine.
 
Piettas have a .451" bore, .440" lands and something like .446" chambers ... use a lube pill or a wooly wads thay will work jus' fine.
 
My 60 Colt by Pietta has .450 chambers. .451's will shave a very, very thin ring. .454's are much better. You get two pamphlets with a new Pietta from Cabala's. One from Cabela's that specifies .451 and one from Pietta that specifies .454
 
I received a Cabela's-Pietta Rem.1858 two weeks ago. Have to agree with what everybody said about the ball dia. I can not tell the difference in accuracy, I'm using Hornady balls. Let us know how it shoots!
 
You did not screw up. The gun should be able to use either. You'll have to let the gun tell you if it likes one BETTER than the other; there's no way to predict that.

There's a little thing in the real world called tolerance stackup. It says that if you get all the physical errors that can be made lined up together in the same direction, the actual dimensions on the chambers and the lands and grooves can be bigger on some guns than others of the same manufacture. Thus saying that 'Piettas take a XXX ball' is really a bit of a broad generalization. Most will meet that standard, but it's not impossible to find one that won't like a .451 ball for that reason. No matter what everyone else's gun does or doesn't do.

So, don't get your knickers all twisted up over it. They might work and they might not, but in any case it's not your fault.
 
Thanks everyone for your help. I kind of felt like it was my responsibility to make sure I ordered the right thing for him. I just didn't want to let him down. You know how it goes: "No good deed goes unpunished".
 
I did the same thing some years back. the .451's did 'shave' but I used stiff grease over top for insurance. I bought just one box of them so I shot them with 'target loads'.
I use .454's now, a pronounced 'ring' is shaved.
 
Eaither size ball the .451 or .454 will shoot well in all my 44 cal Italian made revolvers ..I use the .454 `s because the .451`s are tight in some and a little loose in others ..the .454 just seems to work well across the board ...
I worrie a little about ball creep from recoil with the smaller ball ...but I`ve never experienced a chain fire from it ...there are some revolvers that don`t shave lead when loading .. like an early Euro Arms Remington I owned ...this one worried me with the .451 ball .
My Rogers & Spencer and Ruger ROA are the only revolvers I have left that won`t shave lead with a .454 ball so I use .457 balls in those guns .
Like said you just never know untill you try the different size balls ..
I could tell I was getting some ball creep in the R&S and Ruger with the .454 balls by the way some of the chambers sounded when fired ..a little puffy with little or no recoil ......the .457 ball in those two ..fixed that problem .
 
So now I have a question...

Is there any reason that I can't (read shouldn't) be using the .457s I have in my Pietta. I have a Ruger Old Army that I shoot way more than any of the others I have and so have all .457. On my Remington they shave a good lead ring, but I remember it shave a decent ring with .451s. Am I going to damage it? I was trying for simplicity with only having one ball around.
 
Quoting williamfeldmann: I was trying for simplicity with only having one ball around.
Click to expand...

This was my concern as well. Being a cheap skate and having limited space. I wanted a one ball answer to all my problems. And then I went out and bought a .36 revolver. Now with my .54, .50, and .44, I had added another problem.

But over the time, I have settled on the .454 ball for use will all my .44s. Since I shoot the 1851 the most often, it became the trend setter. The slightly smaller bore .44s responded well with the .454s and with a grease pill, the ROA has never shown any reluctance to accepting the .454.

Saying that, I see others on this thread have had problems with the .454 in the ROA. So it may very well be that there are differences in their cylinder's diameter.

If the .454 ball drops freely down your barrel and into the cylinder, then that is a good reason to move up to the .457. But if you have to apply force to seat the ball, then odds are that it will shoot fine. You may not be the Anne Oakley of the Ball. But if you were her, then you would be lecturing us.:D

If you have been using .457s in your Pietta and it hasn't exploded in your face, it probably is fine. I just haven't invested in a box of .457s to try it. So basically what I am saying is this. If you want just one ball, then find the revolver you shoot the most often. The ball that works the best in it, will in most cases that I have found, work in the other .44s. You may just want to invest in a cylinder loader as the loading arms of the Pietta may not like the extra torque needed to seat the .457 ball. But who uses those loading arms any ways. They are window dressing. They are for tamping down an already seated ball in the field so that we can look real cool.:D:D Just joking all you loading arm users.

But I await the real experts to weigh in on the pros and cons of using a .457 in a Pietta.
 
The only reasons NOT to use a larger (eg. .457) ball than absolutely necessary are:

1) undue strain on the loading lever and loading lever pivot parts; these parts, especially the pivot parts, are weak on some guns and there are rare reports of breaking screws and levers

2) diminished accuracy, which would only occur if your particular gun's chamber/forcing cone/cylinder bore sizes were better suited to a smaller ball, something you can only find out by bench rest shooting. Larger balls are NOT inherently less accurate - this parameter is a function of many variables, but it's possible that some guns will shoot a smaller ball better.

Re: shaving lead.
SOME revolvers are made with chamfered chamber mouths, or have had the chamber mouths chamfered after sale. It's possible these guns will not shave a lead ring, rather they simply reshape the ball to fit the chamber. If you're not getting a lead ring with even the largest ball, check to see if the chamber mouths have been chamfered.
 
Variable

The first Pietta I received had 3 or 4 different bore sizes for the 6 cylinders, I think one of the 6 would shave a ring, I only fired that example 12 times and on each shot I "repacked" the charge. A couple of the 6 each time were loose from recoil. I was using Hornaday .454 balls. I packed it up and sent it back to Traditions with an RMA, they replaced it. The replacement shaves a ring on each cylinder with .454. I gotta take that pistol out and shoot it, it is fun!
 
Measure your chambers and bores folks...if you have a .451" ball with a .001-.0015" swedge ring left on your rammer or a .003" ring with a .454" ball...why try and break the loading lever pin(weakest point on the Remington) by usin' a .457" ball with a .004-.005" ring???
 
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