So I was cruising around in the shop just a few mins ago and picked up this 4" 686-1 I always look them over good. Rifling was excellent. Seemed to be in great shape. Although I think the trigger suffered from too much material removed from components. Lightest pull weight I've encountered yet. I always give it the hammer check...cock it single action and push on it with my thumb. Well this one slipped off of the sear with modest pressure. I tried again to make sure I didn't accidentally trip the trigger. Yep. It slipped off again. This is relatively dangerous and not particularly a good thing isn't it?
Bad Smith 686 at LGS?
- Thread starter mattL46
- Start date
If you pointed out the defect and got a significant reduction in price, I would have purchased it and replaced the hammer and/or trigger. If they would not do a significant price drop ($50 minimum), I would have told them no thanks.
As a S&W, double-action enthusiast, I have never altered the single-action trigger...I have never found one that needed it nor do I normally use the single-action feature (hammer spurs removed on most my double-actions). I do however, go to lengths to get the double-action trigger as light as possible. With the double action feature, one can undo the spring changes that got the light-pull, unlike when someone has screwed with the single-action engagement.
FYI: The rifling in a handgun does not generally "wear-out". The forcing cone is where you want to look...excessive shooting with hot loads erodes (burns) it.
As a S&W, double-action enthusiast, I have never altered the single-action trigger...I have never found one that needed it nor do I normally use the single-action feature (hammer spurs removed on most my double-actions). I do however, go to lengths to get the double-action trigger as light as possible. With the double action feature, one can undo the spring changes that got the light-pull, unlike when someone has screwed with the single-action engagement.
FYI: The rifling in a handgun does not generally "wear-out". The forcing cone is where you want to look...excessive shooting with hot loads erodes (burns) it.
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Probably springs too light and cut springs.
Strain screw might have been let out too far.
Was the trigger return lazy--maybe both main hammer spring too light or strain screw out too far and trigger return spring cut/replaced.
If not none of those things, then someone may have screwed over
the sear engagement.
Strain screw might have been let out too far.
Was the trigger return lazy--maybe both main hammer spring too light or strain screw out too far and trigger return spring cut/replaced.
If not none of those things, then someone may have screwed over
the sear engagement.
@dahermit failed to mention that. It looked OK. Not as good as some that I've seen but not terrible. I sometimes do fail to look at the cone because I've been had on a firearm with less than decent bore condition. But I'll make sure to pay more attention to that. I'm no expert but have gotten much better at spotting junk. I didn't and won't buy it. Even 50$ off would put it at $725 asking price. Just think that is a bit too much. Although it is a 686 and they are only going up. Just didn't feel like it would have been a good buy.
@bigjim between 5-600 I would have had to run to the bank. Although I'm an electrician and its slow time. Haven't worked in a week. It will pick up but there will always be down time in the winter. So this isn't a good gun buying season for me. I always say if its meant to be I'll take it home. Knowing the fellas up there they wouldn't come down to much less then 750ish. So it can stay there.
With this kind of defect pointed out would/could they even sell you the gun?
I've tried to get some reductions by pointing out cosmetic problems (with mixed success) but never found a safety defect in a gun being sold by a large gun store. I would think they would just pull it off the shelf 'cause of liability issues.
Note: I have no problems what-so-ever with a shop selling a 'fixer upper' -just curious as to what most shops would do.
RIDE-RED 350r
New member
The strain screw should be turned all the way in on any S&W DA revolver. It is not intended to be a method of adjustment but rather a means or releasing tension on the mainspring to facilitate easy removal and installation of the mainspring...
But having said that, the strain screw can back out after so much shooting I suppose. Just like any of the other fasteners on a revolver, (especially a magnum) it should be checked an verified tight periodically.
I'm no expert gunsmith, but in my mind I would not think the strain screw tension would have a hugely significant effect on the single action trigger breaking pull?? Will have a more significant effect on DA pull and primer strokes though.
My bet is that if the strain screw is verified to be tight, the easy push-off condition will still be present. And I would also bet that this 686 has had a kitchen table trigger job done on it by Bubba.
But having said that, the strain screw can back out after so much shooting I suppose. Just like any of the other fasteners on a revolver, (especially a magnum) it should be checked an verified tight periodically.
I'm no expert gunsmith, but in my mind I would not think the strain screw tension would have a hugely significant effect on the single action trigger breaking pull?? Will have a more significant effect on DA pull and primer strokes though.
My bet is that if the strain screw is verified to be tight, the easy push-off condition will still be present. And I would also bet that this 686 has had a kitchen table trigger job done on it by Bubba.
Strain screw is the easiest thing to check. It doesn't require breaking open the side plate. Just remove the grips and you'll see the big long leaf spring running down the middle of the hand-section of the frame. There will be a screw that engages that spring some where near the bottom of it. Make sure that screw is snugged up good. If it is then the answer lies somewhere else. If it is not snug, then tighten it up and retry the hammer.
carguychris
New member
No, the two are wholly unrelated.mattL46 said:
The strain screw ONLY affects the weight of the double-action trigger pull, the force necessary to cock the hammer in single-action, and the force with which the hammer strikes the chambered round. A backed-out screw, filed-down screw, or reduced-power mainspring will reduce all of these forces.*
These modifications are generally intended to lighten the DA pull, but they introduce a risk of potential light strikes or misfires.
Keep in mind that a filed-down screw will cause these problems even when tightened down properly. Diagnosing a filed-down screw generally requires comparing it with a new factory screw and replacing it if it's shorter. Sometimes they can be spotted by looking for rough file marks and/or an excessively flat or uneven tip shape; the tip of a factory screw is uniformly convex and round.
None of these modifications have ANY influence on the revolver's tendency to "push off" or to discharge if dropped with the hammer cocked. These problems are solely influenced by sear engagement, which is the major factor affecting the single-action pull weight.
The "push off" problem exhibited by this revolver suggests that the single-action engagement surfaces on the hammer and sear have been monkeyed with. (FWIW the S&W lockwork design has different engagement surfaces for single and double-action.)mattL46 said:
Bingo.RIDE-RED 350r said:
*FOOTNOTES:
J frames, and I frames made after the mid 1950s, use coil mainsprings and lack strain screws. With these models, a light-strike or misfire problem is generally caused solely by a too-light or too-short spring, and is fixed by replacing the bad spring. [This is not applicable to an L frame Model 686; I mention this only to educate future users who find this post in the archives.]
A S&W revolver that is many decades old may have light-strike or misfire problems caused by a mainspring that has "taken a set" and lost its "springiness" due to remaining in the same position for too long. In this case, the cure is to replace the spring, or judiciously bend it back the other way. [This is highly unlikely to be a problem with an L frame Model 686, which can be no older than ~34 years as I write this, and is made of higher-quality and more uniform materials than earlier models.]
RIDE-RED 350r
New member
Matt: It seems you and I are cut from the same cloth. Although I have only been a Smith owner for about 5 years now and I don't have many yet (modest collection of 7 at the moment), I am a die hard fan. And then there's that thing we both have for the "W's"! 
@red ride I was thinking the same thing. I wish I could say I had 7. Unfortunately its only two currently. A 4" 65 and 2-1/2" 66. My collection will grow. I've got a little bit of everything. My passion lies in yesterdays firearms. Prolly my favorites are the old Winchesters. Which I only have 4 of. Strong weakness for the old colts as well. My dad has several I mess with. Big Mauser fan. At one time had 3 but back down to 1. The only "New" guns I have are an 870 and a junky spartan. Which was my very first gun. Bought it new myself.
This condition is called push off. It is the result of the sear contact point being damaged (bad trigger job). It will likely require a new hammer/trigger. Contact S&W. They will fix it.
Jim
Edit: I see carguychris already addressed the push off. FWIW, a buddy of mine had the same issue with his 629 he bought used. He contacted S&W about it and they sent him a call tag, repaired it and shipped it back free of charge. Not saying they'll do the same for you but never hurts to ask.
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I bought a model 67 what had some issues with push off, and a worn/undersized hand. I bought a new trigger (maybe it was a trigger and hammer??) on eBay for $20. It ended up being a drop in fit and resolved the issue. Having said that -- $700 or more for a 686 seems crazy! Especially when it has issues. I remember 3 or 4 years ago sweating a decision to buy a 4" 686-4 that was missing the (easily replaceable) rear sight assembly, and that was a $425 price tag. How times have changed.
