Bad Day at the Range - KB!

I

ICryoman

New member
Today I had a "minor" KaBoom in my Walther P99 .40S&W. I am not certain what the cause was but here are the details. Fired 1st round in magazine, 2nd round in magazine fired and felt fine, sounded normal but the shell casing landed to the left-front of me on the shooting bench. (all other rounds typically to the right rear of me about 15 feet...!). 3 rd round would not fire then I checked for "in-battery." I noticed then that the rear half of my extractor was gone and the extractor spring still in its pocket within the slide. I only then looked at the 2nd round casing. Huge bulge at the unsupported (feed ramp) area of the casing. Two sharp marks on each side of the case where it slammed back into the right and left edges of the breech face. At the rebated rim, the casing was entirely blown apart (like a head separation in a rifle round) but with the rim blown back into the casing where it now rotates. (Don't worry, I'll post a picture in a follow up). Yes, breach end of the cartridge is entirely "retained" within the front half of the cartrdige but now rotates within it (IE. there are two complete seperate parts of the casing. The magazine did not blow out and after complete dissassembly there is no other damage except for the extractor which sheared exactly half way alongs its length (just above the extractor spring). I guess the Walther, like the Glock, also has an unsupported area of brass. This scared the devil out of me as I am a very conservative reloader. (Did I say that I shot reloads in this? No, of course not, Walther doesn't allow you to shoot reloads! ) Pictures to follow. Cheers, Cryoman :(
 
Here is a photo. Note you do not see any of the rebate in the casing. Cheers, Cryoman:(
 

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Yikes, that looks nasty. :eek: Glad you are OK. It's interesting that the bulge didn't blow out as in some cases, instead the separated pieces pushed themselves together. Do you think it was a double charge?
 
Hi Batman,

I do not think it was a double charge as I load in trays of fifty and always do a careful second look for such. I do admit that I cannot speak for the history of the brass as it was given to me by a friend (its PMC) and could have been range trash.... I also pulled a couple bullets from the same batch after measuring OAL (OALs all ok) . The charges I found were very reasonable (mid to low in the acceptable range.) Regards, Cryoman:confused:
 
Could have been that the bullet had been pushed back into the case. When this happens the round then fires with a much greater pressure.
If you have shooting ammo and you have carry ammo... sometimes the carry ammo can take some beatings in being loaded and chambered repeatedly...

Could this have been the case?
 
ICryoman,

Glad to hear it wasn't worse and that your O.K. !!

I have seen a similar thing happen with a P99 before, except the one I same blew a chunk out the side of the frame also. It is funny that yours and this other one I saw have one thing in common. The brass. Both were using PMC!!:eek:

I have six P99's and I can tell you the chamber is supported. At least when compared to a Glock. I've compared the chamber with that of a Glock and a Sig and The Walther has better support.

I also reload and have been weeding out the PMC brass. I'll make doubly sure now that I've seen your experience. I also vaguely remember a 9mm P99 going KBoom from factory PMC. That was about 2 years ago that I saw that on the web somewhere.

I'd contact Walther and see if they'll fix it for you.

P99
 
If the brass may have been "range trash", why didn't just toss it?

It sounds like the problem was setback. The bullet of the second round hit the feed ramp on the way into the chamber, got pushed back a small distance (.002" can mke a huge pressure difference) and then kaBoom! goes the extractor.

It's good to hear you weren't hurt and there's only minor damage to your pistol.
 
I had a KB my self this summer with my H&K USP at an IPSC match. After finding the case (both parts) I knew what had happened. Some brass that had been shot out of a Glock got mixed with my brass and I did not get them all out. It broke my extractor also, but I finished the match and did not notice it was broken until I got home. The case was PMC also.
 

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Yet a third PMC case! I don't like the PMC. At least for reloading. I'd advise everyone to get rid of their PMC cases if your reloading and maybe tighten up your crips a little.

P99
 
P99

I haven't had any problems with my PMC brass and I'll throw out 3000 pieces of it as soon as you send me an acceptable replacement.:rolleyes:

How many loose "crips" do you have hanging around anyway?:p (I know you meant crimps.)
 
:p :p :p

Ok, my spelling isn't all that great today.:rolleyes:

I guess I'm just a little leary of PMC brass. I have shot and probably will still shoot new PMC ammo, but I won't reload it.

P99
 
Could you please post the details of your reloads?

Don't include the powder weight if you are worried about some idiot trying it in his gun and getting the numbers wrong.

I'm interested in things like:

OAL
crimp/no crimp
bullet type (rn/hp/wc/swc)
bullet construction (lead, plated lead, jacketed, etc.)
bullet brand
bullet weight
 
Isn't the old saying, "A bad day at the range is still better than the best day at work!" :rolleyes:

Last March, my G21 went KABOOM! Polymer chunks everywhere, even took out a chunk of flesh where the mag release went ballistic :mad: And that was still better than work because now I have a cool story to tell :cool: Plus it gave me an excuse to buy another gun :D

ICryoman - good to hear you weren't hurt! Stay safe
 
PMC huh? This may be a tad off topic but.... I shoot my .22 rimfire target rifle quite a bit, when I have time.... Any way, I bought a brick of PMC target ammo, 500rds, of those 500 rounds, 5 failed! This is a very high rate of defects. Three never fired, and two fired, but never made it out the barrel! I had to push them out with a cleaning rod! Lucky I never got a hot loaded one, but the wals of the barrel are 2x thicker than the caliber... so Some may have been...
Stay away from PMC brand everything.
;)
 
Here are the data:

OAL: 1.65"
crimp/no crimp: Lee taper crimp (1st), Lee Factory crimp (2nd)
bullet type: Lead SWC from Widner's or Natchez
bullet weight: 175 grain lead
powder: 5.1 grains of AA No. 2

I have pulled a couple from the same batch to measure the 5.1 grains load. I'll probably scrap the casings with primers (PMC)
 
Hmm, Data looks good. Not sure what happened, except the case was probably bad.

What has become of the P99? Did you send it in to get it fixed?

P99
 
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