Backward Primers

T

tommyherman

Inactive
New to reloading..... I find that many times I have pushed a primer into a case backwards. I use a Hornady priming tool. I load 9mm and 45acp. I assume I am not the only one to do this. My question is if I push the primer back out and re install it properly will it malfunction? Anyone experienced at this please respond.
 
I've done it before and they have always worked, but I still reserve them for practice rounds. Two cautions: Ease them out, a quick bump could set one off. And make sure you have a way to catch it so it doesn't get mixed in with the spent ones.
 
I suppose most of us have done that a time or two with handgun cartridges and chances are that 99 out of 100 primers would function properly when corrected. I'll wait for your follow up to see your results. Some may recommend not depriming upside down primers so be gentle when doing so.
 
I've only been reloading for about a year so take this with a grain or two of salt.

I have loaded a few primers upside down, and yes you can de-prime them without incident, and re-use them. As another poster said, I only use them for target practice after that. Be very smooth and gentle if you attempt to do this.

I had one go off when I tried to 'tap' out a tough one (small pistol primer), and it went off. No harm done, just a loud noise and I hit my target heart rate for the day.
 
I've done it a few time in 40 plus years of reloading. Just deprime it gently and it will pop out easily at least all mine have.

I don't recall any of mine being dimpled any at all so I just flipped them over and used as normal. I've never had a handload not go bang but I've had factory ammo in the past that were duds.
 
Witch Hornady priming tool are you using. Maybe you need to tweek what you are doing to prevent backwards.

I was having problems with my RCBS hand primer not many but maybe 5 of 1000 were going in sideways. Someone suggested clothes pins on the primer tray. I added a metal clothes pin on each side and haven't had a sideways primer since. The pinch in the tray lid had given out.
 
Anyone experienced at this please respond.
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OK, I have removed primers that have been struck at least 5 times in three different rifles, I removed the primers then reinstalled them back in the same case 'AND THEN' I chambered the cases one at a time in one of my rifles with killer firing pins. All 5 primers busted off.

I was not at the range, a near-by-reloader was. Everyone at the range was bad mouthing R-P ammo. They called me and wanted to know what was going on witn R-P ammo.

Basically I responded with "If you want to know if it is raining and you have a window: "Open it!" I described the R-P box as having a phone number, I suggested they call R-P. My neighbor did not get contact information from the proud owner of the new Ruger and he failed to bring the box. 5 of the 20 rounds failed to fire and he had two boxes.

Used primers? In the last year I have pulled down 500+ magnum cases. A wild guess would suggest 75% if the ammo would fire. I was not interested in deterring how many of the primers would work after removal. The ammo was loaded in '70, '71 and '72.

F. Guffey
 
My question is if I push the primer back out and re install it properly will it malfunction?
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My question is, you are willing to do this to save 3 cents? With what you are loading toss the whole mess and you loose 8 cents. If one of the primers should go off during extraction it won't be pleasant. If you must push the primer out be sure to be wearing eye and ear protection, just in case. And keep your work area clear and clean.

Find the root cause of the upside down primers. Are you shaking the tool? It should be a slow and deliberate stroke without too much force. I used a Lee hand primer for almost 40 years and I think I may have seen one or two like that. I believe I caused the issue. You may want to consider spending more time looking at your primer pockets before seating your primers. Not all primer pockets are created equal.
 
^^^^^^^^I agree with the above with a few exceptions^^^^^^^^^

I deprime slowly but toss the primers in a small tub of WD40 that I keep around to dispose of un-used primers . Why would it be worth blowing up my gun for $.03 . You can easily damage the primer enough to fail or not fire off completely leaving a squib in the barrel . If in the middle of a rapid fire , that would not be good . All to save a couple pennies .

Find the root cause !!!!!! If it's happening once or twice every few thousand rounds there is something wrong . I use a hand primer and have loaded thousands of rounds in the last few years and only installed 2 upside down . I have how ever just recently been having problems with my priming tray not letting my 9mm SP primers freely slide into position under the shell holder . They hang up right at the entrance and if I'm not watching they will flip over sometimes . I have not fully investigated the issue . I did lightly sand the opening hoping that would help them slide by but it has not . This leads me to think it might be the shell holder doing something because 45, 308 , 223 , 270 all prime with out issue .
 
tommyherman,

I find that many times I have pushed a primer into a case backwards.
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Not a question but the last time your saw the primer it was anvil up? Seems the question would be 'and then' the next time you see it you find it has flipped. 'How does that happen?' I do not have a Hornady priming system, I have priming systems that will flip primers. Press mounted primer systems have gone through a few changes, RCBS has at least three different designs. The first design was not designed for the last design, the last design will work on systems designed for the older presses.

Then there is smooth, chatter will flip a primer and. Then there is that part about setting a primer, you seated the primer while pushing on the anvil side.

Back to the firing range with the M1 Garand, when cease fire was called and the last round chambered had to be ejected, I never remember seeing a primer that was not dented by the (floating) firing pin.

F. Guffey
 
I don't clearly recall flipped primers but I do recall some at one time or another. I like those hand primer trays but I do keep a sharp eye on them for flips or jams.

I suspect that the tray lids might have a certain amount of a wavy surface. As a part of plastic injection molding and cooling to a slite warp or wave ware the tray should be truly flat. If the trays were machined I don't believe flipping primers would be a problem. It could be one of those cost things.

9mm small pistol primers would be the least forgiving for flipping do to they are narrower and even possibly shallower. This would be a looser fit in the tray.

I haven't measured primers or tray flat surfaces but I suspect this could be the cause of the problem.
 
Longshot4, All of my trays for the Lee and RCBS hand primers are flip trays, by design once the lid goes on and locked/snapped in place the primes should not be able to flip over.

F. Guffey
 
I have presses and bench mounted primer systems that use primer tubes. Before the primers are ready7 to use I sometimes flip the primers three times.

I have a flip tray from Dillon that will manage 300 primers. That comes in handy when loading primer tubes. It is large enough to manage those big FEDERAL boxes.

Why do primers flip?
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I can count on a primer flipping if the machine I am using shutters/vibrates. I can count on a primer flipping if the primer arm does not align with the hole in the shell holder, the spring that holds the cup will flip the primer if the cup hangs on the shell holder. If the primer flips 180 degree it goes in upside down, there are times the primer is stood on its side. That one is the ugly one.

The tray is designed to flip the primers. after the lid is installed the primers should not have enough room to flip.

I have managed to bust off one primer, I started with the Lee auto primer, after about 2 hours I gave up and then started on the RCBS hand primer, finally after about an hour I busted one off, I had to bend and mangle it.

F. Guffey
 
I can still remember a time when every primer and every case was precious due to my very limited budget, and that was back when we had $.20 hamburgers and $.40 gasoline...primers were less than a penny then, but still quite dear.

Today, I would toss a flipped primer without hesitation. Steady pressure on the anvil (like from seating it) CAN fracture the priming pellet and lead to less than correct ignition or even total failure. It doesn't always do it, but it can.

Bottom line, seating a upside down primer is YOUR FAULT. YOU failed as QC.

I have done it a couple times in 40 years of loading, every time with a press mounted system on a single stage press, or on a Dillion progressive. If the primer bounces in the cup, and you don't notice it, can be upside down or sideways, and its your fault.

Be honest and admit the mistake, and increase your inspection diligence. If your loading system doesn't let you see every primer right before you seat it, get something that does!! Forget speed, do it right. In the long run, its better than doing it faster with more mistakes.

PUSH the primer out DO NOT TAP! then either reseat it and pop it off in a gun, or toss it. Don't let it get mixed in the "good stuff". Also wear safety glasses and gloves, just in case!
 
Why do primers flip?
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By design, the primer with the anvil up has a radius on the bottom of the cup. The radius allows the primer to slide over the surface of the flip tray. A primer that has the anvil down hangs on the flip tray causing it to flip when it slides across the rough surface.

I have primers that refuse to flip, not many but 'it seems' I have to manually flip at least one primer out of 100, I suspect the anvil is too low to hang on the flip tray or the edge of the primer is too smooth. I do not know.

F. Guffey
 
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