OutlawJoseyWales wrote:
My question is about B.P. revolvers and the law.
Since they are not considered firearms by BATF, as least my understanding is they are not. I could be way wrong there.
But I do know you can receive them without an FFL, at least I got that part right.
Is my B.P. revolver considered a handgun by the cops if it is in my car and unloaded?
I would think that it would be and all regulations should be followed like a "ca-trige" firearm.
Thanks, OJW
Hi Josey. I highlighted your question in blue so it would be easy to re-refer to.
A muzzleloading revolver that is designed to be held by one hand is still a handgun even if it isn't considered a firearm under federal law. I could be wrong and please correct me if I am, but I believe you may have meant to ask if it would be considered a "firearm" (not a handgun, which it
IS muzzleloader or cartridge) by the cops.
The short answer is....
it depends.
The long answer requires my book below Lol.
In the U.S. we have four different and separate forms of government. 1. Federal. 2. State. 3. County. 4. City/municipal.
In this case we can omit #1. (Federal law) because muzzleloading weapons are specifically exempted from the NFA and are not considered firearms by Federal law.
But that leaves....2. State law. 3. County law and 4. City/municipal law.
Many state laws mirror Federal law, but....state's rights (which are a joke considering the interstate commerce act wherein the Feds do whatever they want IF THEY WANT SOMETHING, regardless of state law if a judge rules in favor of the Feds in an interstate commerce case...but I digress).....
again....state's right (supposedly) allow a state to enact laws that are more restrictive than Federal law. Such as an example N.J. Where you cannot have a muzzleloading revolver mailed directly to you and must go through an FFL even though the Federal NFA specifically exempts muzzleloaders from being classified as firearms. That's an example of a state law being more restrictive than Federal law.
So....it depends on your state law.
Then there are county and city/municipal ordinances. Many counties and cities enact ordinances that are in direct contradiction to their state law....but....they do it anyway and the county brings financial devastation (common tactic used by the Feds, state, county and cities) upon you if you try to sue them for violating state law. The financial devastation consists of your bail if you are arrested, your attorney costs, time lost from work, not to mention the emotional and physical toll on you. That is how anti-gun Federal, state, county and municipal forces operate against you if you have the audacity to exercise your constitutional or state's rights.
The "powers that be" of a county or city that want to violate your 2nd amendment or even your state law rights don't care about the law. They know they can
USUALLY overwhelm an individual who is using their own funds for litigation while the "authorities" have unlimited tax dollars to quite simply in most cases out-money you. It is sad to say but that is the so called "justice" system we have in this country. It isn't really a system of justice, but a flawed legal system that gives high deference to the "authorities" while you are often viewed as an "upstart peasant" "rocking the boat" and allows whoever has the most money for best legal council to win.
Then whether you win or the "authorities" win....there is the expense of appeal. Either you appeal or the "authorities" appeal. Either way they continue to financially devastate you. And that is their goal. To destroy you financially to where you finally give up. And our "justice" system allows this and is actually set up to maintain this status quo. I didn't even touch on an anti-gun judge ruling directly in contradiction of Federal or state law. Which of course would engender an appeal (if you could afford it) and then you may go in front of an anti-gun appellate judge or judge panel which ALSO rules in contradiction of Federal and state law. And since SCOTUS only will grant cert to less than 5% of the cases submitted to them, if a district court and an appellate court actually rule in contradiction of the Federal or state law, then if you can't get cert from SCOTUS, those illegal and immoral rulings stand even though they violate Federal and or state law. And that is how precedents are set. It is also how injustice works.
That is the reality, trust me, I've had quite a bit of experience in this regard that I won't EVEN go into nor do I wish anyone else familiar with my experiences to go into those cases at this forum.
So not only does it depend on your state law, it also depends on how willing you are to sue the county and or city if they violate your state law with ordinances that conflict with your state law.
The bottom line is this....the Feds are SUPPOSED to follow congressional law.
They don't. The state is supposed to follow state law. They don't. The county and cities are supposed to not have any ordinances that contradict state law. They don't follow state law either.
If you fight any of them in litigation, their common tactic is to bring financial devastation upon you, destroy you so you will give up, and even if you win, you lose because it takes years off your life, causes divorces, empties out your bank account and mortgages your house and anything else you have to fight a long protracted legal battle. And frequently even if you win, the courts will rule that you have to eat your own attorney fees. After all, the nerve of you dirty unwashed peasant having the gall to not know your place and bring suit against the "authorities".
And that my friends is the
"legal system" in America. Do not confuse it with a "justice system", because there is no such thing as a system of justice in this country anymore. What we have is a Federal, State, County and City/municipal system of government that is designed to maintain a certain status quo and keep the peasants in line even if it breaks our constitution and other laws to do so. It does this to maintain the necessary status quo which is necessary for the elites in power to CONTROL the peasantry and to maintain their positions of power, opulence and luxury....at our taxpayer dollar expense.
We are slaves who think, and have been propagandized to think that we are free when we are not. We have also been propagandized to think if our rights are violated we can take it to court for redress of grievances. But as you can see...the game is rigged and the cards are stacked. And the game riggers want to set examples of you whether you win or lose to deter others from following your example.
Ancient Rome would crucify a Spartacus occasionally to keep the peasants cowed and in line, today they financially, physically and emotionally devastate you. Or you go to jail over an unjust ruling.
Bottom line? There is no security in the law. You cannot count on it. If the "authorities" want to prosecute you even if you have broken no Federal or state law,...they will and you will be damned lucky if you win. Because the judges theirselves are part of this "legal system" that has nothing whatsoever to do with a "justice" system. We won't even go into an O.J. Simpson, Casey Anthony, soccer mom jury that if you get a jury trial your fate is in the hands of.
So to answer your question of....
"Is my B.P. revolver considered a handgun (I think you may have meant "firearm" because it already IS a handgun) by the cops if it is in my car and unloaded?"....Number one, it depends on the individual officer, his supervisor, his police chief (and his political aspirations), the police commissioner (and his political aspirations),....or if in a county....the deputy, his supervisor, the actual sheriff (and his political aspirations), the local judge (and his political aspirations), the district judge (and his political aspirations), the appellate judge or judges (and his/their political aspirations), or the jury (and their political opinions which have nothing to do with law) and almost never SCOTUS unless it is a wide in scope case affecting thousands of people.
This is not the land of the free, it is the land of who has the most power, influence and money.
To answer your question....IT'S COMPLICATED and not easily answered and just DEPENDS on a whole host of things. With the actual law and your rights being of the least concern.
Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. All we can do is the best we can. After all, we live in a "legal system" (no justice system) that is based upon ancient Greek, Roman, English and Napoleonic law, all flawed systems, so just how "Just" can we expect it to be?
Everything the Nazis did was perfectly legal too....according to their nazi laws. And if it wasn't....they just made it up as they went along and devastated anyone who had the audacity to question them. Sound familiar?
Sorry for writing a book, but some things just cannot be easily answered in one paragraph.
.
