autonomous reactions to fatigue

E

Evil Monkey

New member
I've fired about 9,000rds in three pistols. I'm no stranger to shooting.

I find that about 200rds in a shooting session, I start to shoot real sloppy. Dipping and heeling the pistol, clenching, etc.

I know not to do that. I stop shooting and then take a breath, then continue shooting at steel plates 15-20 yards away. Within 5 rounds it happens again!!

It's like my brain is engaging in an automatic response from the fatigue and recoil after shooting for a while and there's nothing I can do about it. :mad:

I used to shoot upwards of 300rds at a time but it got annoying and aggravating missing shots near the end of the session so I started bringing 200rds instead.

What am I doing wrong here? I don't feel like I'm doing anything wrong. I got the stance down. I rotate my shooting hands' wrist forward and my support hands' wrist backward for a stable firing platform. I squeeze the trigger and am careful not to move the muscles too much in my hands.

Yet still, after a few boxes of ammo, it's like some autonomous bodily function takes over and my rounds go all over the place.

I assume this is normal? Can it be further managed?
 
Here's something you may consider unrelated but give it some thought. You may be getting slightly dehydrated. Not enough to cause concern medically but you are not as young as I used to be and your eyes may dry out more quickly or your muscles may be responding earlier to a water shortage that you cannot feel. Next time at the range start sipping some water even before you start shooting and make a conscious effort to sip a little every ten minutes or so. Stay ahead of any thirst that you can feel. Try to stay with good old water if you try this. Please no sodas or coffee. You may be surprised.
 
I don't have anywhere near 9000 rounds downrange, but I also lose accuracy after a few boxes. Usually after 100 rounds for me.

I love to golf even more than shooting and when I practice that I notice my focus starts to wane around the 45 minute mark.

I don't know if it's physical (I'm overweight by about 40lbs) or mental(focus) issues. With golf practice I just start beating balls towards the end. With shooting I start dumping mags towards the end. Be better for me to cut practice time in half.
 
Target shooters have known this for a long time. Its simply a case of the nerves rebelling against the strain.

Most target shooters will rest a day between practice sessions.


As to the theory of dehydration, I can't say. When I was into target shooting, water hadn't been invented yet.

Bob Wright
 
You can only maintain concentration for so long at anything. Training classes should only run 45 minutes to an hour. After that people stop learning. It may help to take a break after a while, move around and get some exercise.
 
In my experience extended range sessions are counter productive. I found the biggest bang for the buck was about 1 hour, after that I was just practicing mistakes.

Want to really get good? Practice dry firing for about five minutes every day when you're well rested. For a while I used an air pistol (might as well isolate the wear to something cheap, right?) to dry fire for five minutes when I was just out of the shower every day. Be hypercritical of every miscue, every time the front sight dips, etc. You will improve.

I agree with Shotgun Slim on the hydration aspect. Keep track of your diet, as how you've eaten, and what you've eaten can factor in to how you feel. I love food, but a huge meal, or a bunch of sugar before a range session don't help.

Bob- back then did you have to buy oxygen and hydrogen and make your own water?
 
Causes a new appreciation for those who can go all day, doesn't it?
Good nutrition and hydration starting the night before and continuing through out the day, a good nights sleep, dressing properly for the conditions, and, of course, being in shape - all go a long way to maintain stamina.
Ask any trainer.
 
Evil Monkey,

What you're describing is completely normal. In my experience, after an hour or so a "high round count" day is only useful for turning money into noise. Especially if you are a once a month or less shooter.

It can be overcome with experience and conditioning. Though my preference is for shorter, more frequent trips with a targeted game plan. You're going to get better results if you decide today is the day you're going to practice presentations and first round hits for 50 reps, rather than "look at all this ammo I brought to use up."

When I was shooting Highpower, I sent more "shots" down dry-firing than I ever did live fire. I also focused hard on keeping myself in condition to handle a 6-8 hour slog up and down the firing range during the course of a match. I rode bicycles to get cardio toning, brought plenty of food and water and got out of the sun every chance I could. Luckily the way matches are structured you get to change up what you're doing instead of trying to shoot the whole time. The mental break helps.

Oh, I have far more than 9000 rounds down range and I still only go through 100-200 rounds on a "normal" range day, mixed over a couple of different firearms. Keeps me from developing sloppy habits and undoing all of that practice.
 
That's not fatigue, it is probably an involuntary reaction to the stimuli of recoil and retort.

Skinner rules!!!
 
I didn't know hydration can affect you this way. I'll put that into consideration.

What you're describing is completely normal. In my experience, after an hour or so a "high round count" day is only useful for turning money into noise. Especially if you are a once a month or less shooter.

It can be overcome with experience and conditioning. Though my preference is for shorter, more frequent trips with a targeted game plan. You're going to get better results if you decide today is the day you're going to practice presentations and first round hits for 50 reps, rather than "look at all this ammo I brought to use up."
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I go twice a month. When I go, I prefer to bring plenty of ammo so I can be there a while and have a great time. If I take frequent short trips, I'm spending more money paying to use the range, so I can't do that.
 
200 rounds is about my limit during a range session. Sometimes I shoot 100 rounds (handgun) and call it a day.:o
 
"...I start to shoot real sloppy..." Upper body tone exercise. Olympic grade shooters spend as much time in the gym as they do at a range. You're trying to hold a couple pounds or more still. Takes upper body tone to do that.
"...more money paying to use the range..." Join a club. Preferably an NRA affiliated club. Opens all kinds of doors.
 
Well, TE, my sloppy upper body took me all the way to A-class in USPSA. I spent a full year tracking my performance, keeping a training log, what I ate, how busy I was at work before matches, what mistakes I made, and it all adds up. Hey, I can shoot all day, but I wanted to win matches.
 
From Slopemeno...In my experience extended range sessions are counter productive. I found the biggest bang for the buck was about 1 hour, after that I was just practicing mistakes.
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I like this^^^. I have really been getting my girlfriend into shooting and she loves it but gets frustrated as her shots begin to diminish further into our range sessions. I explain to her that it is normal and extended sessions begin to be counter productive. I like the practicing mistakes..:D.
 
My FiL and I usually shoot for two hour sessions. When I am fatigued enough to start shooting poorly, I just switch to 22's. I can't shoot 44 magnum worth beans when I am tired, but still do okay with my Buck Mark.

On a good day I can go 90 minutes with centerfire.
 
I will add - I'm also too dang CHEAP to waste more than about 100-150 rounds during a typical range visit. If I'm competing or really trying to accomplish something other than staying acquainted with my EDC, then I'll loosen up a bit and spend more ammo.
 
I'm not sure why it happens, but it does. Some of my best shooting sessions involve the least amount of rounds fired. You don't have shoot a Bazillion rounds to have a good range trip.

A typical session for me will involve 100 rounds or so. I find a friend, and let them set the range with targets that make me THINK. Basically, divided attention drills

Understand the agency I work for has it's own range, and we can use at anytime, as long as we abide by the department's policy for use, so I am probably in a better position than most as far as what I can actually do on the range.

For instance, hang 4 targets. One is a blue circle with a number 1 in it, the next is a red triangle with a 2 in it, the next an orange square with a 3 in it, the last a yellow diamond with a 4 in it. My partner calls out a shape, I double tap it, then calls out a number, same drill, then a color, same drill. This incorporates target identification into shooting. You can incorporate starting from surrender, or back turned, or while moving along the line, or from behind a barricade. Sometimes we will run with 2 rounds in each magazine to get reload drills in the mix. We will put dummy rounds in each others magazines to get malfunction drills in there too. This stuff don't cost a lot, and takes up less ammo while maximizing the experience you get.

There are all sorts of things besides standing static on a line and shooting the center. I've said this for decades. There's a difference between marksmanship and shooting. Marksmanship is NOT the only aspect of shooting. When I decide marksmanship is the order of the day, it's a box of 50 and I'm done.
 
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My friends and I had a pretty set routine of shooting either a match or practicing on Wednesday nights- after Wednesday the work week started to wear me out. I'd bring 100 rounds, and maybe I had a handful or rounds in my bag from last week.

My friend and practice partner from those days came up with some "dry-drills" as we coined them that mad a huge difference for us- especially when we were crawling up out of the unclassified division.

We'll call this one the "Kevin". Put on your holster and mag carriers, and make sure your ammo is in the next room: Holster your 1911 with the hammer down. Put an empty mag in your #1 mag carrier position. Draw, and "dry press" (i.e.- you aren't even dry firing- just pressing the trigger.) like you are doing an El Presidente. Tinktink, tinktink, tinktink, reload, tinktink, tinktink, tinktink. I had some 3" x 5" cards I'd cut into the shape of USPSA targets taped to the wall. You only have to do this a few times a day when you're well rested. It really builds muscle memory and front sight discipline. The key is to really critical of how good your front sight focus and sight picture was during the dry drill. Five minutes a day adds up. As always- use caution. You don't want to have an AD. Double check that your gun, mags and work area is clear of ammo.

Remember-this is just a skill builder.

I'll also say that shooting a match, formal or informal- every week as opposed to just shooting made a huge difference as well. The match atmosphere makes you push yourself to work harder to avoid public humiliation. I've read Massad Ayoob describe practice with no goals "ballistic masturbation"- and I would agree. Measure your performance- keep records.
 
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