Australian Gun Control?

As an Australian citizen & shooter, I had "heard" of a few of these facts from other people.

Now that they have been formulated into a coherrant line of thought, I'm MADDER THAN HELL !

Suggestions anyone?

What to do... what to do.....

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"The Gun from Down Under !"
 
John/az2/HS: I don't know enough about the incident in Austrailia to comment on same...HS, it's your and your countrymens' problem to deal with, and it's your business, not ours. Obviously, any insights you can provide will be greatly appreciated, as long as they fall into the realm of the possible. John/az2, I read through BG (Ret) Partin's article, and quite frankly, I don't really believe he's qualified to comment on the physics surrounding the Murrah Bldg incident...he's a pilot, an aeronautical engineer and an ORSA guy...so what?!...that doesn't mean that he knows jack about high explosives and the physics related to potential results surrounding an explosion of anymore than a firecracker. Understand that I am in no way attempting to demean his intent, ethics or good will...based on the information that was given in the web site address provided, I don't think the man's opinion is all that valid. And concerning the letter of support from Dr. Raubach...in what field does he hold his Phd...what are his credentials and experience...he is given a lot of drag in supporting BG (Ret) Partin's paper, but what makes him qualified to do so? Just a thought, I could be totally off base.
 
Mike - Outside "forces" may one day be your (countries) problem too !

Try to think of the bigger picture here & the ramifications of such.....

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"The Gun from Down Under !"
 
Mike,

Thanks for your response. I can honestly say that I do not know enough about the physics involved with explosives to be a viable critic of his paper.

I posted this address here to find those who do know more about it than I do, in order to coraborate (is that the right word?) or disallow this claim.

I do this with everything that I come across because I want to find out if it can be verified or vilified.

Some on this board have called me, in essence, a Black-helicopter-watching-conspiracy-theorist . I don't think that they understand my intentions on posting.

Call me what you want, but our government deserves to be watched and evaluated. Isn't that the price of freedom?



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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
 
Yes Dennis. That's why I posted it! ;)



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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
 
John/az2: Thanks for bringing the links to people's attention.

The veracity or otherwise of Joe Viall's claims can not be judged by the "common man" because we are denied access to the evidence that would corroborate or refute the claims. That is why there is a growing push here for a Royal Commission into the whole affair.

To anyone who says it couldn't happen in the US, I say "bullsh*t" -- never, ever misjudge your enemy.

The result of Port Arthur is well known -- but this may interest you.

1. The legislation was written in advance of Port Arthur. Govt advisers admitted they were just "waiting for an excuse" to enact it.

2. A mainland politician is on record as saying, some years before Port Arthur, that there would never be sensible gun laws in Australia "until there is a massacre in Tasmania".

3. The public demonstrations against the new gun laws were verified, by independent counting, as the largest in Australia since the anti-Vietnam (and some were larger). The media consistently under-reported the numbers: sometimes even reporting just 25% of the actual numbers.

4. There was NO parliamentary opposition to the new laws -- all political parties sided on the issue -- which is unheard of.

5. The Prime Minister admitted he had never fired a gun, but knew precisely what terror they were capable of from watching Arnold Schwarzenegger movies!!!!

6. The legislation was rushed through in 10 days!!!

7. States which dissented from the new laws (and mine was one of them), were told personally by the PM that Federal funding would be withdrawn totally until they complied.

It was, IMHO, a hatchet job on shooters from Day 1. While I wish Joe Vialls all the best in his endeavours to get at the truth, I know[/i] that as soon as the media get the story, they will totally destroy the man as a gun-loving crackpot, and hold him up to national ridicule.
 
Bruce..

I admit to a great deal of ignorance about Australia. Your statement:

"A mainland politician is on record as saying, some years before Port Arthur, that there would
never be sensible gun laws in Australia "until there is a massacre in Tasmania"."


jumped out at me and really is sinister. Is there a reason this politician specified/focused on Tasmania as the place where a massacre must occur in order to get such gun regulation? Why is Tasmania so special or important?
Basically, why did he specify Tasmania instead of just saying "a massacre has to happen before we get sensible gun laws"?

Also, just out of curiousity, where is this politician now? It sounds like this guy knew it was gonna happen and prematurely opened his yap

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"



[This message has been edited by DC (edited March 07, 1999).]
 
Bruce,

I know that such atrocities have occured here in the states and anyone that says otherwise can only have their head in the sand.

History is replete with such examples and we are no different, no matter by what name we call our government. It is simply its nature.

"When good men do nothing, Evil will triumph."

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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
 
DC - I don't know if this is what's behind the statement but Tasmania had the "softest" gun laws in Aus.

Full auto licences were also available, these two factors were probably an incentive for the making of a killing spree? - by "outside forces" that is !

Not by sporting shooters.Who have always maintained an exemplary record of firearm ownership !

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"The Gun from Down Under !"
 
DC: Thanks for the response. I believe the quote is attributed to a former Premier, Neville Wran BUT I will attempt to track down the source.

I think HS is right: Tasmania was singled out because of its "lax" (read commonsense) gun laws. They refused to be dictated to by Canberra or the mainland -- and did indeed have an enviable safety record by sporting shooters. Extrapolating from that, if a masacre occurred in the State with the most relaxed gun laws, the others would have no "option" but to fall into line. I am not a conspiracy-theorist, but something really stinks here.

HS, I'm not so sure that full-auto licences were available, though. It is my "belief" (again) that these have not been available in Oz for many, many years.
 
"In 1988 Australian news papers reported New South Wales politician Barry Unsworth's claim that there would be no effective gun control in Australia until there was a massacre in Tasmania."

"Solicitor Roland Brown became famous long before the massacre for his strange but remarkably prophetic comment on Channel Seven Television, quoted verbatim in 1997 by the Strategy newspaper, 'We are going to see a mass shooting in Tasmania of the likes you have never seen in Strathfield and Hoddle Street, unless we get national gun control laws.'"

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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
 
Mike,

If you did not read the report from the USAF on the Oklahoma bombing, you might find that an interesting additional testimony.

It's on the same page as the one by the Brigadere (sp?) General.


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John/az

"Just because something is popular, does not make it right."
 
John/az2, HS, and Bruce in West OZ: Thanks to all of you for your input to my posting of a few days ago. John, I did read the USAF report and will re-read same. HS and Bruce, you're absolutely correct that we must zealously guard the 2d Amendment in our country, or it will be trampled on at every opportunity by anti-gun forces that are proven to be strong, intelligent and relentless in their efforts. This is at its heart, an issue of culture. The information you have all brought forward is interesting and disturbing, which provokes thought and interest on my part, and that is all good. Let me say that my opinions are colored by 20+ years of enlisted and commissioned service to my country. The majority has been spent in Military Police work and then in the Special Operations community. My experience has shown me that no matter how compartmentalized an operation is (and you all have provided information that alledges government complicity in brutal incidents designed to facilitate draconian anti-firearms legislation), information will eventually "leak". This is especially true if immoral or illegal action is involved. As nefarious as our governments are at times, as little trust as I place in politicians, senior LE personnel and some senior military officials (mostly the civilian bureaucrats w/in DOD and the NSC) I firmly believe that there are far more people of good will, conscience and moral conviction who would not hesitate to blow the whistle if something like this happened. You just can't keep it quite. John, we'd have to go all the way back to the early 60s and Charles Whitman (tower shooter at UT in Austin) and work our way forward through the past 30+ years. Can we truly say that the perpetrators have "disappeared" and that we know nothing about there psychological/neurological state, motivation, skill levels with weapons, etc? HS and Bruce, I'm no expert on the legal and legislative system you have in Australia...surely there MUST BE SOME METHOD OF REDRESS regarding the allegations?!? The comments by the politician appear frightening at face value. I would submit that his intent could have been to state what was, to him, the obvious fact that until there was a firearms tragedy, there would be no new laws passed...as firearms restrictions were (according to you) laxer in Tasmania, his logic would indicate that there was a greater chance of an incident there as opposed to another location. I don't agree with that logic...I'm just pointing out that he was probably thinking along those lines...the fact that there was (sometime later) a tragedy in Tasmania does not mean that the actual shooting was done by government snipers with the rap being pinned on the guy who was arrested, tried and convicted. Bruce and HS, I hope that someone or some group of your fellow shooters and other people of conscience who want to redress a great wrong AND bring out the truth are successful in their efforts. I hope that we have enough people with enough backbone in my country to ensure that firearms ownership does not become only a distant memory that I will share with my grandchildren.
 
Mike: Thanks for the well thought out posting.

I need to state in advance that I am NOT a lover of conspiracy theories. Having said that, I believe the government is covering up events at Port Arthur, not because it was some government-inspired "black" operation, but because they want to hide plain, old-fashioned incompetence. And one of the easiest ways to do that is, of course, to find someone else to "blame" -- in this case, it was the normal legitimate gunowners of Australia. A compliant (even proactive) media were only too willing to help.

There *are* many allegations about the Port Arthur shooting that we can not check due to a lack of access to the facts. What we can find out (usually via the Internet) raises some disturbing issues (such as shot-to-kill ratio; the fact he head-shot moving targets from the right hip, despite being a left-hander; the fact he was mentally "retarded" and unable to even point out the safety catch on his weapon to police; his abysmal shooting when holed up by the police; why Port Arthur staff are expressly forbidden from even mentioning the incident, or responding to questions; why doors in the cafe were, apparently, locked; why photo evidence shows all the signs of being faked; why police were called away on a hoax by "persons unknown" at that exact time, and so on). Even the fact that his weapon was handed in to police for destruction on the mainland during an "amnesty", and THEN onsold in Tasmania (presumably by the police) has been glossed over or ignored.

I'm not sure of our political processes here, either (appalling ignorance, I know), but I do know a case can only be re-opened with political compliance -- and no politician appears to be the least bit interested -- or is too scared to touch the subject.

What I am sure of, though, is that we have enttered an appalling new era of political correctness, when it is the "right" thing to be anti-gun in Australia, at any lengths.

A brief illustration: We have just had the situation of a police officer drawing his sidearm on a 12-year-old boy playing with a plastic air-powered pellet gun, firing soft plastic pellets (which the media insist on calling a replica). The cop drew on the kid, forced him to throw down his "weapon", then spread him and patted him down.

The media praised the officer's actions!! Why? because he actually "didn't have his finger on the trigger". Had I been in charge, he would have been severely reprimanded for drawing his firearm in asituation which didn't warrant it. And if that kid had been mine, I would have fought for him come hell or high water (even if I kicked his bum at home!). But these parents went public and bowed their heads (figuratively) with much lamenting that they had even bought him the toy. Incidentally, a neighbour called the police, which is how they found out.

The Letters to the Editor section of yesterday's paper carried a selection of letters --- every single one of them condemning the boy, his parents and gunowners in general, and praising the police and the neighbour who turned the kid in. That's the sort of political correctness that frightens me.
 
Bruce,

Your thoughtful commentaries should be published in every American newspaper and taught to every American child in school.

From what I grasp of the current Australian experience, the media, that honorable watchdog of the government, is out-doing itself in promoting tyranny and oppression.

We Americans must note it is already happening here and increasing daily.

From the Australian example, we know where our country is going. The only question remaining is where will it end? The answer, for the moment, is still in our hands.

[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited March 11, 1999).]
 
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