Aussie shooters vindicated -- officially!!

I hope some of you may be able to use this information in your fight against registration/licencing and ultimately confiscation.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Media Release
Minister for Justice and Customs
26 July 2000

Licensed gun owners not responsible for firearm homicides

Licensed firearm owners are not responsible for the majority of firearm-related homicides according to research by the Australian Institute of Criminology released today by Senator Amanda Vanstone, Minister for Justice and Customs.

"Licensed gun owners are law-abiding citizens with legitimate reasons for owning the weapons they have.

"In over 90 per cent of firearm-related homicides the offenders are not licensed and the weapons are not registered," Senator
Vanstone said.

"In 1998/99 there were 64 firearms-related homicides in Australia, the lowest number since the National Homicide Monitoring
Program commenced a decade ago.

"The rate of firearm-related homicide in Australia is 14 times less than the rate in the US.

"However, the use of handguns in homicides in Australia has increased from 13% in 1995/96 to 42% in 1998/99. Positively though, not one handgun used in a homicide between 1997 and 1999 was used by a licensed owner. One gun was registered, but to the victim.

"The problem therefore appears to be handguns that are diverted illegally into the black market for criminal use.

"I have already raised this disturbing increase in the diversion of handguns into illegal use with the Australasian Police Ministers' Council and a working group is currently undertaking a comprehensive examination of the use of handguns in crime and relevant policing strategies. (That para doesn't sound too good for handgun owners, actually)

"Clearly this AIC paper confirms that the Federal Government was correct in introducing tougher penalties to deter people from
importing prohibited goods such as firearms.

"The licensing, registration, and storage requirements imposed by the new firearms regulations have significantly restricted the
availability and access to certain firearms.

"The recent ABS data on recorded crime, released last month, showed welcome trends in firearm-related crime. As well as showing that the use of firearms in homicides in the calendar year 1999 fell to its lowest level since 1995, the ABS report showed the use of firearms in all robberies had decreased by more than half between 1993 and 1999 and the proportion of firearms used in armed robberies had also declined from 18% in 1998 to 15% in 1999.

"While these are welcome developments, we should all remember that those at the frontline of fighting crime, who daily face the risks posed by firearms and other dangerous weapons, are sons, daughters, parents and partners. Whenever we talk about crime statistics, it is appropriate to remember the valuable contribution of our police men and women."[/quote]

And the press release from the Sporting Shooters Association of Australia:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>SPORTING SHOOTERS ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA INC.

***MEDIA RELEASE***
For immediate release

Sporting Shooters vindicated

The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia Inc. has welcomed recently released Australian Institute of Criminology figures
showing that licensed firearm owners are not responsible for the majority of gun-related homicides.

The SSAA's Executive Director of Public Relations & International Affairs, Mr Keith Tidswell, said that shooters felt vindicated
by the findings. "We have argued all along that the government's buy-back scheme was aimed at the wrong group" Mr Tidswell
said. He went on to say that instead of spending $500,000,000 dollars confiscating firearms from law-abiding gun owners "the
government should have put the resources into tackling criminals."

While the AIC's research showed that licensed firearm owners were involved in less than 10% of gun related homicides, recently-released Australian Bureau of Statistics figures indicate that the rate of firearm related murder still stands at 17.8% -- about the same as it was before the 'buy-back' program. "We have almost exactly the same ratio of firearm related killings as we had when there were 640,000 additional guns in the community, clearly the buy-back was misguided" Mr Tidswell said. He went on to say that the SSAA was now engaged in the struggle against gun crime at the international level via its new position
as an official Non-Government Organisation within the United Nations. "While we regret that the AIC's findings were not available at the time of the APMC agreement in 1996, now that average shooters have been exonerated we hope the government will finally turn its attention to real criminals" Mr Tidswell said.[/quote]

Now, let's start to roll back some of the more ludicrous Australian rules and regulations and, especially, the unabashed "anti-gunowner" attitudes of the government, the police and the media.

B
 
Too little too late ?

By the way Bruce, not that it would make it 'alright'(freedom has no price), but were you mates compensated for all the fodder you supplied for the bulldozers ?

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Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
1 Peter 2:16.
 
RH:

We were compensated, yes -- at a government-decreed price! Your firearm had to be valued at over $10 000 before you could challenge the payment. For example, I lost a .22 s/a and a pump action shotgun -- for $290AUD (about $150US).

Yes, it's too little, too late -- but it's the first step upwards in 4 years of fighting.

It's a start!

B
 
Bruce, this is certainly a good note but I think we all know these draconian laws will never be reversed. They simply never are.

At best you will have the small satisfaction of being able to say "I told you so!"...

CMOS

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NRA? Good. Now join the GOA!

The NRA is our shield, the GOA will be our sword.
 
Bruce, don't listen. I agree that it's incredibly rare for these kinds of abuses to be taken back in fact, and it won't happen if you don't put a great deal of heat on your legislature and maybe not even then.

But how do all these pessimists think Florida got concealed carry about ten years ago, rolling back decades of draconian carry laws? What about Texas? It CAN be done. Good luck.
 
I don't know.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In over 90 per cent of firearm-related homicides the offenders are not licensed and the weapons are not registered," Senator
Vanstone said.[/quote]

Or you could say: 90% of firearms related homicides are committed by those who are unlicesed, with unregistered guns. Unregistered guns are used in 90% of gun homicides, therefore, registration and licensing is good. It clearly reduces gun homicides. (Not that I believe that, of course, but that's what our enemies will say.)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"The problem therefore appears to be handguns that are diverted illegally into the black market for criminal use.[/quote]

diverted illegally = sold between private parties without registration or licensing

black market = sold between private parties without registration or licensing

criminal use = privately owned without registration or licensing

Thanks for posting this. It's good info, but I guess I interpret it differently.

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"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz

[This message has been edited by deanf (edited July 26, 2000).]
 
Wasn't it John Howard himself who said something like, "I don't care about crime (or "it's not about crime") - I just want to destroy the gun culture"? This kind of news, while perfectly predictable, makes no difference to a gov't/people with Howard's attitude.
 
Battler:

Little Johnny Howard said that, too -- long before Blair. The following isn't the quote I was searching for, but it illustrates his opinions:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"I don’t pretend that it is simply a matter of imposing a stricter regime regarding the possession of automatic or semi-automatic weapons. But that is an element of turning around the culture in the country and that is the reason why the Government has taken the decision that it has taken."[/quote]

Deanf:

You said:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>diverted illegally = sold between private parties without registration or licensing
black market = sold between private parties without registration or licensing
criminal use = privately owned without registration or licensing

Thanks for posting this. It's good info, but I guess I interpret it differently.[/quote]

I should just point out that nowhere in Australia was it legal for "private parties" to sell guns to other "private parties" wwithout police involvement, or to own a handgun without it being registered or licensed even before the "new" legislation.

Cheers

B
 
Bruce, the offer still stands! Get a long lay-over in Clt.NC. and the ammo is on me! Thanks for keeping us updated on your side of the world! All I have to say is.... If we can just save one child (19 yr. old gangbanger)........
 
I should have known ...

I posted the press release in full so you could judge the figures for yourselves.

The following is the way it was reported in Perth's (only) major newspaper, The West Australian.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Handgun Murders Triple
(The West Australian, Thursday, 27 July 2000, p. 7)

The use of unlicensed handguns in Australian murders has increased more than threefold -- from 13 percent to 42 percent of firearm murders -- in three years.

New research by the Australian Institute of Criminology points to a big black market in guns. Not one handgun used in a murder between 1997 and 1999 was registered, the AIC report said.

A burgeoning black market in the wake of tighter regulations following the 1996 Port Arthur massacre may have contributed to the jump in handgun homicides in the past few years, the institute said.[/quote]


Nice bit of spin doctoring, eh?

Be interesting to see if it's reported in the USA, and how it's reported.

sumabich:

That offer's sounding better all the time ;) Thanks.

B
 
The trick is for any of you that live there to really get involved and really really get agressive politically about this issue. If you have an equivalent of the NRA, give them your time and money, it is a worthy goal.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
 
Bruce, I understand your position. You did present the information in the context of it being useful in the U.S. for our fight. I don't think it will be.

As you know, selling between private parties without government knowledge, or owning guns without license or registration is Constitutionally protected here. Our enemies here routinely use the terms diverted illegally, black market, and criminal use to refer to activities that are Constitutionally protected.

They may latch onto the statistics you presented and use them to our disadvantage here.
 
Deanf, I see you zeroed in on the same thing I did.

Bruce, your willingness to help is greatly appreciated, but no matter what good can be derived for the rest of the article the antis will exploit… “Licensed firearm owners”. That’s exactly what they want… licensing… then confiscation.


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Guns are not dangerous! People are! RKBA!

homes.acmecity.com/rosie/happy/307/

[This message has been edited by Jerry45 (edited July 27, 2000).]
 
"Licensed firearm owners are not responsible for the majority of firearm-related homicides according to research by the Australian Institute of Criminology..."


GASP! Whew, I had to lay down for a few minutes when I read that shocker. Are you trying to tell me that people who commit homocides don't take great pains to register all their guns? [To anti lurkers, who MIGHT possibly be a little on the slow side, this is know as sarcasm.]

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What can YOU do? Take a kid shooting, join NRA & GOA, and VOTE!
-Danny Stoner, NRA life, ORA, GOA, OKCGC
 
Hmmm ... point taken, people. Guess I'm so damn used to guns being regulated and licensed and hammered on the anvil of bureaucracy it slipped my mind that there are still some free countries in the world.

If there's a chance this info can be misused, Admins please remove it pronto -- though I believe NRA is posting it also.

Sorry, people

B
 
It's not all fun and games here.

If you don't have a carry licence, they call the feds and ask them if you have a criminal record. This is like licencing, and I always got delayed (probably a foreigner thing - they have to dig deeper to find out I'm not actually ineligible.)

Yeah, you get past this with a concealed carry permit; but that's licencing anyway.

If they pass licencing it will make a BIG difference. Right now, anyone I get to become interested in shooting can just walk into a store and walk out with what they want. Having to do lots of paperwork/waiting to get involved in shooting tends to discourage participation - in this the NRA was right in one of their speeches - crappy states in the US with licencing (some states are worse than Australia with pistols) there are comparitively fewer pistol users; although noone (yet) dumps on hunting rifle owners, too many.

In discouraging participation in shooting, you can cull the numbers to manageable (e.g. can't vote in a big enough block to matter) chunk for confiscation.


Battler.


Battler.
 
It is my understanding that Tazmania, on the other hand, has no gun laws whatsoever... of course I heard this a year ago so who knows what has changed. They showed a few guys there though that had quite an amazing arsenal, along with a good collection of steam locomotives :)

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth
 
I seriously doubt that Tasmania has no gun laws.

Certainly carry is verboten, or it would have been quite the "talk" so to speak.

Certainly after the port arthur shooting, all the states were required to have more "uniform" laws - Meaning they had to suck to a certain degree (although some like I think West Australia are worse than others).

Was his arsenal "amazing" wrt. what was in it or sheer number? It is still possible to have a large arsenal of expensive boltaction garbage - if you can pay for the paperwork.


Battler.
 
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