Attn. Dave McC 870 help needed

S

S.F.S

New member
My Wingmaster is jamming occasionaly, by that I mean 3 times in 25 rounds... I will pull the forarm rearward to eject a fired shell and slide the forend forward and new shell will stove pipe.
I have never had this problem with my Express. This has happened with various brand names of shells. The barrel is tight and the receiver is clean.

Thanks...
Scott
 
by stovepipe, you mean that the front of the new shell will actually be sticking out of the ejection port, right? Or do you mean that it is all inside the receiver, and is binding up on the rearward edge of the chamber (or some other internal widget)?

Mike
 
To the rescue,(Maybe)...

Let's run down the checklist first...

Are you using the proper ammo? Stick to 2 3/4" for the nonce.

Are the shells showing any dents, bent rims, etc?

If the ammo is OK, drop the trigger group by carefully drifting out the pins with a non amrring punch(Plastic chopsticks work well)and inspect the carrier. Does it look damaged and/or bent? You have another 870 to compare it with, correct?


You may want to swap TGs to see if the problem's there.Hand function the carrier and see if there's binding. Inspect the inside of the receiver to see if anything seems to impinge.

Check the extractor for grunge buildup.Note if it's not coming to the perpendicular from the bolt, but travels less or more than 90 degrees.

How's it shucking? The action bars may be bent a bit past best. Also, does the bluing wear on the magazine seem even all around the circumference or is it concentrated on one side? This indicates a bend in the mag tube.Either/both of these can throw off the loading sequence.I'd also make sure the nut at the end of the action bars assembly is tight to thwart torquing.

Also look at the ejector and see if it's broken, including the front corner, which should be smooth and rounded very slightly off square.

Another possibility,tho more distant. Check the shellcatchers and see if they look bent or worn.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Maybe a real smith like DML can help...
 
Coronach,
When it jams the shell stays in the receiver and jams on the rearward edge of the chamber. (kind of on an angle). When this first occured I thought the barrel was loose but not so.

Dave,
Everything checks out well, Greg Wolf at Albrights looked it all over and said everything was in good condition when I had it to him. The shells are 2 3/4" and no defects, I even put the shells that jammed in the WM in the Express and not a problem.
I did notice yesterday that after the shell jammed that it was below the the extractor on the bolt instead of behind it. This may of happened when it hit the top of the chamber.
Their is very little blue off the action bars and the tube but the little that is, is even.
The carrier seems ok to me I compared the two together.
Anymore suggestions?

I may check with a older fellow who does some light gunsmithing at a gun shop I frequent (Smyrna Sporting Goods) and have him put some shells through it him and his son do alot of skeet shooting. His son works there also.

P.S.- Dave do you want to borrow it on your next outing :)

Scott
 
I encountered a stove piper 870 once. The extractor hole in the bolt was gritty from the finish process and this interfeared with the power of the extractor spring and plunger. Everything LOOKED Ok, and the extractor seemed to be powered Ok. No rust or crud, but it would fail to hold the shell properly.
I disassembled the bolt and used a small wire brush to polish out the grit. This freed the spring up, and it ejected Ok.
 
If it is staying inside and jamming against the bottom edge of the chamber, I had the exact same problem. A re-rack will often load the offending shell.
The lifter was not snapping up far/fast enough to raise the shell prior to me ramming the pump handle home/forward.
If you cycle it at slow speed, does it always work?
If it was a pistol, I'd polish the feed ramp.
I "fixed" mine (it's worked OK the last two times out, including today) by dropping the trigger group and removing the Carrier/lifter. There is a small plunger that slips into a hole in which there is a spring inside. I polished this part (called the Carrier Dog Follower I think) and put just a wee bit more stretch into the spring (Carrier Dog Follower Spring?) along with a drop of CLP in the hole.
I put it back together and the carrier/lifter seems to snap up with more vim and vigor.
Keep us posted,
Mike
 
Uh,no thanks,Scott,got a good shotgun or two. I'm kinda flummoxed on this, being no smith and this is something new to me in the way of glitches.

Mike brought up a decent point. How hard are you racking? Does it happen when you do it gently or hard?
 
I have racked this gun the same way I always did my Express which has never given me a problem.
I rack it quickly but not roughly, I have tried racking it slower and faster but it still does the same thing.

It comes down to that I can't rely on this gun :( Which of coarse bothers me.
Scott
 
It'd bother me too,Scott.

Next, I'd swap all the internals with the other 870 and see what happens. You may be able to narrow it down to what part needs attention, adjustment or replacement that way.

When you do fix it, I'd sure like to know what was wrong....
 
Dave,
I examined that thing every way I know how, comparing the one to the other and with no prevail :(
There was a burr on the upper part of the receiver right where the barrel meets the receiver. I was hopeing that might be doing it and had it smoothened up but that was not it. I didn't think so since it jams after that spot.

Would a mag spring cause it? The reason I ask is because I replaced it with a new one when I got the gun, the old one that was in it was stretched out longer by someone. The one I put in came from Remington and measured to the same length as my Express. The new spring has plenty of tension and the shells don't get hung up in the tube at all.

Im gonna talk to the gunsmith over at the gunshop I go to and see what he says.
If he can't figure it out then I will most likely trade it towards one of them dreaded auto's :barf:
I like things kept simple I guess thats why I like Revolvers, pump actions and bolt actions O&U aren't bad either :D
 
Did you read my previous post in detail? Was I way off there or what?
Also, "stove pipe" is when the shell or cartridge is partially ejected so that it sticks out of the ejection port and looks like, well, a stove pipe.
Your description does not sound like a stove pipe but is does resemble the problem that I had with my spare 870.
Do you get the feeling that I hate being ignored?
Is this a problem with the shell not coming up far enough to feed into the chamber?
Or perhaps the gun is junk. I will give you fifty bucks for it. I can meet you at the PA/DE border this weekend for the deal. I promise that I will never tell you that I fixed it or that it is shooting fine for me. Whenever you ask I will say it is still broken and remark about how you made such a savy deal, if I can hear you over the sound of the clays busting!
Mr. "Please read my post" Mike
 
Mike,
I responded to part of your questions when I posted, I was not meaning to ignore you. Also I was under the impression that a stovepiping is when the shell stays in the receiver and jams on the rearward edge of the chamber, (kind of on an angle). This is what mine is doing. A rerack will not chamber the shell. I have tried it several times.
I compared the carrier dog of both 870's and both seemed to function the same way.
Also there was no reason to insult me by offerng me 50 bucks for the gun..
Scott
 
OK Scott,
Seventy five bucks! ;)
Really, sorry if you took offense to my reply. It is hard to diagnose via internet, especially when the terminology is out of sync. I am really trying to help but if I get a reply that ignores all but the most trivial part of my post then I get cranky.
Now, if I understand what you are describing it is, in the simplest terms, that the shell is not being lifted high enough to enter the chamber so that when you move the bolt forward, the shell jams against the bottom edge of the chamber.
Before I type any more, please tell me if that is correct.
Mike
PS. If you really intended this to be a private discussion between you and Dave then just let me know and I will bow out. I would ask however that you work with Dave via pmail so I will not be tempted to stick my nose into the discussion.
 
Mike,
This is not a private thread between Dave and I in anyway, Its just that Dave seems to be the one everyone calls upon for 870 advice and he in the past has helped me out. I am not against getting help from you in any way. By the way appology accepted...

OK, what is happening is I will fire a shell, eject it and upon feeding the next shell it will jam on the top portion of the receive just shy of going in the chamber forward of the locking notch at that time I also notice that the rim of the shell is below the extractor instead of behind it. I don't recall if the carrier is still in the up position at this point. I tried to duplicate it by depressing the action bar lock but unable to, It only seems to do it upon actual firing of the weapon.
Scott
 
Guys, guys, we're all friends here!

A coupla things....

First, I'm no smith, and never will be. I can do some parts replacement, but that's not smithing.

And, I've done some diagnosis over the Net, but always with fingers crossed.

And after scratching my head over some of the stuff I've been asked by E and P mail, it's plain that there's megabites of info I don't know about 870s.

Fortunately, there's no REAL 870 experts here, so my masquerade is safe(G).

As to this problem, I'va hunch this can be related to grunge limiting the carrier travel, after Scott's last post.Second choice, a weak lifter spring. Try a good shot of gunscrub and then a relube, or take the TG to a shop with an ultrasonic cleaner and let it fizz for a while.

HTH...
 
Well I tried the gun scrub & lube method less then 50 shells ago the problem was there than also.
I have worked the carrier while comparing it to my Express and they both "seemed to" operate the same. Is there another way of checking for a weak spring?

Dave,
Don't ya think Greg Wolf would have caught a weak spring? I know he lubed it also.

Scott
 
Im gonna bring it by a smith this weekend, I spoke with him earlier.
He said he will look at it and if he cant find anything he will take it out and run some shells through it to duplicate it.
I will keep you all posted on what happens. I give up on this one :(

Thanks Everyone for all your help it was appreciated..

Scott
 
Boy, I've been sitting here trying to recreate this or at least understand what's happening. Is "the locking notch" part of the barrel? The only "locking" part that I know is part of the locking block and I'm sure you're not telling me that the shell is under the bolt!
The more I think about this, the more I really think it is a bum carrier/lifter.
The absolute easiest and fastest way to know for sure is to simply swap the trigger assembly from your working 870. That's why you have two! :)
This will tell you right away if it is part of the carrier or a receiver/shell latch/ejector/extractor problem.
If it still happens, put the old trigger group back in but swap the bolt/locking block.
You should be able to narrow it down quickly and if you have not figured it out exactly, at least you can tell your smith the results.
Do you have an owners guide with the exploded parts diagram? They are free on the Remington Web page and are quite helpful in identifying the parts.
I refer to mine all the time to translate some of Dave's posts. ;)
Please post your findings.
Mike
 
If you have a manual look on page 14 figure 17, it will show you the locking notch on the barrel.
Gotta go will explain more after work.

Scott
 
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