attitudes and abilities

N

Newton24b

Moderator
alot of people have no issue with a safety on a semi auto. for some reason those are thought to be more difficult to use safely, or just pose a situation that NEEDS a manually controlled device to keep it from going off in the holster.

but when it comes to revolvers the attitude is that they are not in need of any safety other then a transfer bar.

and then there is the other group that feels they are too experienced, knowledgeable, and able to control any handgun to such a degree that a safety is completely useless and an insult to them.

For that group i want to discuss something that pops up here alot. the "im the only one professional enoguh to use this" groups. when you look at incidents of accidental discharges and negligent discharges JUST FROM TFL THREADS the main cause of it was

i know what im doing, so leave me alone. im overly trained according to my 4 hour ccw course/500 dollar 5 hour pistol class....bang... "hey howd that happen?" *point to hole in wall/cieling/3,000 dollar tv*
 
Newton24b

attitudes and abilities
alot of people have no issue with a safety on a semi auto. for some reason those are thought to be more difficult to use safely, or just pose a situation that NEEDS a manually controlled device to keep it from going off in the holster.
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Focusing on the last part of your above statement, for me a properly designed holster covers the trigger and trigger guard area. This makes it impossible to put your finger on the trigger while the handgun is holstered, and impossible to fire. This makes a holstered gun a safe gun. This also means that there is no need for a manual safety device needed "to keep it from going off in the holster".
That is not to say that a manual safety is not a useful feature of a semi-auto handgun. A safety, however, is not needed while the gun is holstered in a properly designed holster.

As for the overall premise of your post, over confidence, complacency; pride (if you will) goeth before the fall. Any attitude which leads a person to be less careful or vigilant in the proper practice of the firearm's safety rules will eventually lead to some form of negligent use of a firearm.

I try to remind myself that I am human, the people I train are human. Humans make mistakes. I try to maintain a balance between awareness and anxiety.
 
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Newton24b, of those examples you cite, how many were dry-firing but failed to check the weapon clear? For those people, the safety would make not one bit of difference.

The only people who would avoid an ND due to a thumb safety are those with bad trigger finger habits.

Or, possibly, those who don't maintain their holsters properly, and get bulges and indentations which might grab a trigger.

Or, possibly, those who pocket carry without a holster, and put stuff in their pockets, or bump into things that then grab the trigger.

So, use proper gear, maintain it; develop the habit of not putting a finger in the trigger guard; and always verify a safe weapon before dry firing. Do those things, and the odds of ND are minimal.
 
kraigwy said:
My head hurts
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Hahahahahs.

I think I know what this fella is talking about. Everytime someone mentions something that happened unsafe, they are the first to comment and scold. They act as if we are kids. I've seen it throughout this forum.

One thing that pops into my mind from another forum. This fella explained how his buddy had allowed his unloaded glock to slip off the table or out of his hand I can't remember. Said the buddy caught it through the trigger guard somehow. This experience led the fella to start shooting XDm because he liked the added grip safety among other things.

Another member of the forum crucified the fella. Said he was irresponsible and on and on. Said he should focus 100% on anything that could possibly take a life. Now I agree but we all know that we sometimes allow our thoughts to drift. Its like driving a car. While we are driving it's second nature. We relax and let our mind wonder. Safety is #1 to me and it comes so natural. With 20 years of being safe it is something I don't think about. I just do it. Second nature. Its habitual. There's no need for other safety nuts to scold a grown man about safety. If you believe someone is unsafe then stay far away. Keep your family far away. Quit scolding grown folks on the internet.

Truth be told, they are probably unsafe themselves. They probably don't own a gun or maybe they're super mall ninja types trying to look cool. Who knows.
 
Dropping things... hmm...

It's best to let the gun fall, because of the risk of catching it by the trigger. I'd recommend mentally preparing, somewhat, for that eventuality. However, I wouldn't give anybody grief over catching it by reflex.

I can't, really, as I once did something similar. Only in my case it was a Chicago Cutlery knife... I was quartering an orange when it slipped from my hand. Without thinking, I caught the orange - with the knife still in it. Sliced my thumb wide open.

So I'm not about to cast any stones. But still, try not to catch guns, or knives...
 
#2, a holster isnt always safe. havent you heard of the case of the gentlemen who tried to sue a gun company out of existence because he shot himself in the leg while trying to do a fast draw with a loaded single action revolver?
either because teh gun had no warning about fast drawing or shooting it while it was still holstered?


also what about the fbi agent who shot himself on video after yelling that famous phrase "only im professional enough to use this gun"?
 
From your message, it appears you are insinuating that no one should carry a handgun without a thumb activated slide safety. (I'm assuming you are referring to a slide safety that is flipped off by a thumb and not a safety such as used on the Glock where you just press your trigger finger and the safety is off.)

Personally, I do not like handguns with slide mounted safeties. I feel they slow me down when I need to use the weapon, and that is even if I train with one. My personal preference is a SA/DA handgun, and carrying it decocked gives you the same safety parameters as that of a standard DA revolver.

Do I have more than 4-hours of training? Yes! And I thank you and all others on this forum for paying for it over the past thirty years. It has come in handy on more than one occasion. And I can honestly say I am alive because of this training.

Is 4-hours training enough for people to carry a handgun? No. But I'm of the belief that most people who carry a concealed handgun obtain more than 4-hours of training and continue that training for as long as they carry concealed or for as long as they live. For those who don't, then if they ever need to use their weapon, I sure hope I'm not in the range of their rounds.:D
 
i am not against the use of weapons without a thumb activated safety. its just that i am trying to get some discussion going on the reasons some people do or do not like them.

no one likes to own up to their gun mistakes. having a gun go off by accident is not fun, and it less fun and enjoyable then going 50 miles to the range to find out that all the ammo you brought was uncleaned empty cases.

if you filter out children, suicide, homicide youll see that the majority of firearm related issues tend to be PEOPLE WHO CLAIM TO BE SUPER SAFE WITH FIREARMS BUT DO VERY STUPID THINGS.


i dont like semi auto safeties because i need an extra hand to work them, only a few revolvers have safeties to thats a nonexistent issue.
 
also what about the fbi agent who shot himself on video after yelling that famous phrase "only im professional enough to use this gun"?
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Had zero to do with a safety or a holster.

Had everything to do with stupidity and carelessness.
 
Because there are so many different (and indifferent) designs of handguns, it is really difficult to generalize about things like safties and the like and when you think about it, that's true of people, too.
 
For a carry gun I prefer one that is point and shoot with out a manual safety. IF you train with and practice a lot with a 1911 stile gun it is also equally safe. If you don't train with your gun, you probably will not be safe with any type of gun.

In the action pistol matches that I shoot there are some who switch between different guns, one shoot to an other, I am one of them. It is not uncommon to have some shooting a 1911 forget to take the safety off after they have been shooting a Glock in a previous match. The moral is shoot what you are comfortable with but train with it. :)
 
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