Ati wire stock removal legal?
- Thread starter Salps
- Start date
David Hineline
New member
As long as the barrel is longer than 16" and the overall length of the firearm is more than 26" you can remove the collapsing part.
Willie Sutton
Moderator
Let's think this thru guys.... put on the thinking cap:
If it's as long with the stock removed as it is folded... it's legal to remove it.
If it does not make 26 inches FOLDED then it's illegal to begin with. <duh!>
Stock folded or stock removed it needs to have 16 inch BBL and be 26 LOA.
Makes no difference what length it is with stock extended.....
Willie
.
If it's as long with the stock removed as it is folded... it's legal to remove it.
If it does not make 26 inches FOLDED then it's illegal to begin with. <duh!>
Stock folded or stock removed it needs to have 16 inch BBL and be 26 LOA.
Makes no difference what length it is with stock extended.....
Willie
.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
16" barrel and 26" long. All that matters.
M1 stock
I was mistaken barrel is 18 inches according to Wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine
Does that make any difference?
I was mistaken barrel is 18 inches according to Wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine
Does that make any difference?
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
16" barrel (or longer) and 26" (or longer) total length, that's all that matters.
David Hineline
New member
Willie while some states measure a collapsing or folding stock while folded at the federal level it is measured fully extended.
Willie Sutton
Moderator
^^ citation please?
Example: 16 inch BBl but with stock retracted measuring 22 inches... ?
Don't think the Feds would like that one bit. I'd love to see a citation otherwise.
Willie
.
Example: 16 inch BBl but with stock retracted measuring 22 inches... ?
Don't think the Feds would like that one bit. I'd love to see a citation otherwise.
Willie
.
Bill DeShivs
New member
Mr. Hineline is correct. There was a ruling for the Uzi (I think) carbine with folding stock. OAL was 24" and ATF ruled it legal.
Willie Sutton
Moderator
^^ thanks.
Would like to see the citation to see what exactly was defined.
Good info, thanks to both of you.
Willie
.
Would like to see the citation to see what exactly was defined.
Good info, thanks to both of you.
Willie
.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
I guess it depends on what you consider a "real answer".
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
As far as ATF regulations, the answer you have here is exactly correct.
If its a rifle, you must maintain a 16" barrel and 26" total length. As long as you do that, by ATF regulations, you are completely, indisputably legal.
If you want to figure it all out for yourself, look up these laws:
26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3): DEFINITIONS (FIREARM )
26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4): DEFINITIONS (FIREARM)
26 U.S.C. 5845(c): DEFINITIONS (RIFLE)
27 CFR 479.11: DEFINITIONS (RIFLE)
27 CFR 479.11: DEFINITIONS (PISTOL)
If its a rifle, you must maintain a 16" barrel and 26" total length. As long as you do that, by ATF regulations, you are completely, indisputably legal.
If you want to figure it all out for yourself, look up these laws:
26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3): DEFINITIONS (FIREARM )
26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4): DEFINITIONS (FIREARM)
26 U.S.C. 5845(c): DEFINITIONS (RIFLE)
27 CFR 479.11: DEFINITIONS (RIFLE)
27 CFR 479.11: DEFINITIONS (PISTOL)
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Yes.
Let me give you the long answer...
It's contrary to popular usage, but your rifle is not a "firearm" by ATF regulations and what you have to do is keep it from BEING a "firearm"...
What you have, is a "rifle", 26 U.S.C. 5845(c):
(c) Rifle
The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.
As long as it REMAINS a "rifle", you are legal by ATF rules. It will become a "firearm" if:
26 U.S.C. 5845
(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
Those lengths are defined by:
Title 27: § 479.11 Meaning of terms.
Firearm. (a) A shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (b) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (c) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (d) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (e) any other weapon, as defined in this subpart; (f) a machine gun; (g) a muffler or a silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within this definition; and (h) a destructive device. The term shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machine gun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Director finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon. For purposes of this definition, the length of the barrel having an integral chamber(s) on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breech block when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked. The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.
Let me give you the long answer...
It's contrary to popular usage, but your rifle is not a "firearm" by ATF regulations and what you have to do is keep it from BEING a "firearm"...
What you have, is a "rifle", 26 U.S.C. 5845(c):
(c) Rifle
The term “rifle” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed cartridge to fire only a single projectile through a rifled bore for each single pull of the trigger, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge.
As long as it REMAINS a "rifle", you are legal by ATF rules. It will become a "firearm" if:
26 U.S.C. 5845
(a) Firearm
The term “firearm” means
(1) a shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(2) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length;
(3) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
(4) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length;
Those lengths are defined by:
Title 27: § 479.11 Meaning of terms.
Firearm. (a) A shotgun having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (b) a weapon made from a shotgun if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length; (c) a rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (d) a weapon made from a rifle if such weapon as modified has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length; (e) any other weapon, as defined in this subpart; (f) a machine gun; (g) a muffler or a silencer for any firearm whether or not such firearm is included within this definition; and (h) a destructive device. The term shall not include an antique firearm or any device (other than a machine gun or destructive device) which, although designed as a weapon, the Director finds by reason of the date of its manufacture, value, design, and other characteristics is primarily a collector's item and is not likely to be used as a weapon. For purposes of this definition, the length of the barrel having an integral chamber(s) on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breech block when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked. The overall length of a weapon made from a shotgun or rifle is the distance between the extreme ends of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of the bore.
mingheemouse
New member
On the direct BATFE citation regarding measurement of overall length with the stock folded or extended, the weapon in question was the old "Marble's Game Getter" with an underfolding wire stock. The correct answer has already been given here (the ATF measure with stock extended), and this is merely being provided as a reference to BATFE source material.
Quote taken from From:
ATF E-Publication 5320.8
Revised: April 2009
Page 9
"NOTE: One version of the Marble’s Game Getter was produced with 18-inch barrels and a folding shoulder stock. This model of the Game Getter, as manufactured, is not subject to the provisions of the NFA because it has barrels that are 18 inches in length and the overall length of the firearm, with stock extended, is more than 26 inches. However, if the shoulder stock has been removed from the 18-inch barrel version of the Game Getter, the firearm has an overall length of less than 26 inches and is an NFA weapon. Specifically, the firearm is classified as a weapon made from a rifle/shotgun."
Quote taken from From:
ATF E-Publication 5320.8
Revised: April 2009
Page 9
"NOTE: One version of the Marble’s Game Getter was produced with 18-inch barrels and a folding shoulder stock. This model of the Game Getter, as manufactured, is not subject to the provisions of the NFA because it has barrels that are 18 inches in length and the overall length of the firearm, with stock extended, is more than 26 inches. However, if the shoulder stock has been removed from the 18-inch barrel version of the Game Getter, the firearm has an overall length of less than 26 inches and is an NFA weapon. Specifically, the firearm is classified as a weapon made from a rifle/shotgun."