ATF: Shotgun with a pistol grip is not a shotgun

S

Sturmgewehre

New member
http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-...on-on-pistol-grip-shotguns-creates-new-danger

It would seem that Nov. 2009 ruling by the BATF states that a shotgun with a pistol grip is not technically a shotgun under the GCA.

So what is it?

So far I've heard no issues with people being harassed by the ATF and various manufacturers still sell pistol gripped shotguns. But the ATF has cracked down on firearms sold legally and confiscated them or forced registration in the past. Think about the USAS 12ga, Strikers, etc.

I don't get how we allow an agency reinterpret the laws as they see fit without any oversight. It's useless getting a letter from the ATF to verify your firearm is legal because the next day they can change their mind and make you a felon.
 
The news article in question makes reference to the November 2009 BATF&E newsletter. There is also a reference to a BATF&E individual letter from John R. Spencer, Chief of the Firearms Technology Branch, of October 2010, where he states that a Mossberg M-500 Crusier fitted with a 17-inch barrel and having an overall length of approximately 26 1/4-inches, "although it is a firearm subject to the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), is not a "firearm" as defined by NFA."

It seems we have another one of those instances where the government is trying to conquer by confusion.
 
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The bottom line of this ruling clarifies the law for FFLs who sell Cruisers" to remind them they cant be sold to folks under 21.

Personally I see no use for those guns anyway...

Yours, etc.

WildhavingshotthemmanytimesAlaska ™©2002-2010
 
It is a sporting shotgun if it has a stock and you can buy one if you are 18 years of age.

If it has only a pistol grip, it is no longer classified as a sporting shotgun and you must be 21 years of age to purchase it.

The logic of ATF defies explanation
 
The logic of ATF defies explanation
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Well without defending the BATF, I find it hard to find any "sporting use" for a Pistol grip shotgun.

Of course all things depend on time and place. Witness the guy fishing an Alaska stream with one strapped to his back, versus the Kid wearing a ball cap backwards and one under a trench coat at the 7-11 at 1am.

Regards

Wildwhichonesetsoffyourhinkymeter?Alaska ™©2002-2010
 
The R-25 is a sporting gun and has a pistol grip . . . I personally prefer the feel of a pistol grip shotgun and yes for sporting use.
 
I personally prefer the feel of a pistol grip shotgun and yes for sporting use.
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Shooting skeet with Mossberg cruisers is sporting in the same fashion as Rosie O'Donnel holding on a pole naked is stripping.

Warmly


WildmentallychewonthatonebirdiesAlaska ™©2002-2010
 
Shooting skeet with Mossberg cruisers is sporting in the same fashion as Rosie O'Donnel holding on a pole naked is stripping.

Warmly
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Yikes thanks for that visual!

When i bought the 870 it was an express. As far as the ATF and the turkeys i've shot are concerned It's still a sporting gun! :D
 
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where he states that a Mossberg M-500 Crusier fitted with a 17-inch barrel and having an overall length of approximately 26 1/4-inches, "although it is a firearm subject to the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), is not a "firearm" as defined by NFA."
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Am I missing something here? Because if it has a 17 inch barrel and just a pistol grip, then doesn't it qualify as an NFA AOW, akin to a larger version of the Serbu Super Shorty? That's hardly "new" as implied by this thread.
 
openly debating whether it has a use or not is the start of going down a dangerous road as far as our rights go. The use should be determined by the owner, as long as it's a responsible one.
 
Wildalaska hit the nail squarely on the head in post #4. The BATF&E findings are of consequence to those selling Cruisers and potential buyers under 21.
 
Irish B

The R-25 is a sporting gun and has a pistol grip . . . I personally prefer the feel of a pistol grip shotgun and yes for sporting use.
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Irish, I think there might be some confusion in our terms :confused:. We are discussing a ATF ruling on PistolGirpOnly scatterguns, you are talking about butt stocks with pistol grips, a whole different animal.

Wild is chanting as do I " we see no purpose to PGO scatterguns as hunting tools"

Good Luck & Be Safe
 
I just went through this. I was told I could pickup my pistol grip Mossberg 590 in 24 hrs. The next day the manager informed me I had to wait because this firearm is classified as a handgun and there is a longer waiting period. You can, however, purchase a shotgun with the regular stock and the pistol grip at the same time and get it in one day. It all depends on what it was classified as from the manufacturer.
Gotta love the government!
 
And we have us a conundrum fellas...
A modern handgun cannot fire a round larger than .50 cal nor can it have a smoothbore...

Or am I incorrect?

Seems the ATF just made a bunch of guns illegal without an NFA stamp...

But that 17 inch barrel claim is what I been dwellin' on since the OP...
Brent
 
I used to love squirrel hunting with a 12 gauge with a top folding stock & pistol grips front & rear. it was a mossburg 500 with mariner coat, then I found a nice 16 gauge sweet 16, but still almost prefered the 12. I do miss both of them. sold them 7 or 8 years ago, one of my friends used to call me crazy because of my love for that old pistol gripped 12, but it was deadly to squirels & I enjoyed that thing. he never could hit a squirel with the wobbly shoulder stock trying to fire normally, & couldnt get hang of hip firing at squirrels. fun fun fun. Seriously & if I ever had a taste for squirrels, I would think about one of those, but I got burned out on squirrel, over ate until I was sick. & never took it turkey hunting because I was already sick of turkey thanks to my mom growing up. I am planning to make a homemade lasagna for thanksgiving. & normal sides. like stuffing, lol

Later,
Randy
 
And we have us a conundrum fellas...
A modern handgun cannot fire a round larger than .50 cal nor can it have a smoothbore...
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It is not a handgun. It is a "Title I" firearm as it does not meet any of the given definitions. A handgun is designed to be fired with a single hand. The PG shotgun is still a two handed weapon.

What brought this about is the law states a FFL can sell a "shotgun" or "rifle" to persons over 18 years of age. Based on their definition of "shotgun", the pistol grip only shotgun does not meet the criteria and cannotb be sold to those <21".

The reference to the shotgun with a barrel <17" not being NFA is incorrect. It falls under the category of AOW. The person reviewing the letter was so fixated on the overall length that is missed it. This is why you get all of your ATF answers in writing. Gives you something to show the judge.
 
What is a Title 1 Firearm?


Title 1 firearms are long guns (rifles and shotguns), handguns, silencer, and firearm frames or receivers.
Title 1 is generally called the Gun Control Act, (18 U.S.C. sec. 921 et seq.).
Most NFA weapons are also Title 1 firearms.
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Is this correct? if so... I am still not clear...
Brent
 
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