ATF documentation

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Adam0041

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Hello, I have a friend that has an AR with a 14" barrel and he installed a 2" flash hider to the end. I tried to explain to him that the flash hider has to be welded or soldered to the end of the barrel or it doesn't count. He basically told me that I'm full of s&*t and that he has family in the ATF and he knows what's legal and what's not. I got on the ATF website but I'm having trouble finding ANY information on this subject. Can someone help out and point me to the right documentation to clarify this?
 
That's why I don't get involved in discussions at the range about what's legal and what's not. Generally bad feelings all the way around. Plus, the ATF has enough troubles in Congress right now with violations of their own.
 
It looks like AK103K got a great link for you, just be sure to point out page 6 section 2.1.3. It is good because it has the required attachment method underlined so there it is in black and white.

I also agree to focus on your own stuff because most of us are guys and we don't care if other guys say we are wrong.

On a side note... I really like that document and all the guns and definitions, I'll take one of each items listed thank you.
 
I have no intention of turning the guy in, I might me an a** sometimes but I won't give the ATF the satisfaction, I just want to educate him because he is talking of selling it. Thanks AK103K, that's exactly what I was looking for.
 
I highly doubt that anyone is going to notice that the muzzle break/flash suppressor is not pinned or welded in regular use. The ATF doesn't have the time to walk around public ranges checking guns. And neither does the local PD. But you are correct, the problem occurs when he tries to sell it. Any FFL is going to know this is not legal and either 1. freak out or 2. demand he pay to have it permanently attached before they touch it. If he brings it into a gun show, that could also be a real problem if the ATF is hanging around...
 
Also when ordering a SBR rifle... the website usually states that it is subject to NFA requirements... I know when I ordered my BCM 14'' upper it clearly stated it, and I selected for them to attach the muzzle device I wanted.
 
Here's a question: Can you buy a 14" upper without the lower, without the NFA paperwork? As with the auto-sears, I suspect that if you actually own an AR-15 lower and proceed to do this (even if you never attach them), you are breaking the law. Perhaps this is how he ended up with 14" barrel? I've seen these and the 11" barrels on gunbroker with no NFA restrictions..
 
I ordered the 14'' upper from Bravocompanyusa.com.. however I used their drop down menu and got it sent with the flash hider perma installed, there for it technically was a 16.1'' overall upper, and legal for my lower.

They spell it out pretty clearly on their website.
 
You don't need paperwork to order a sub-16" AR upper. Most companies sell them as 'pistol' uppers and clearly state that NFA rules apply, but they mean for your usage, not their sales.
 
Here's a question: Can you buy a 14" upper without the lower, without the NFA paperwork? As with the auto-sears, I suspect that if you actually own an AR-15 lower and proceed to do this (even if you never attach them), you are breaking the law. Perhaps this is how he ended up with 14" barrel? I've seen these and the 11" barrels on gunbroker with no NFA restrictions..
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The only reason you would be breaking the law is because of the ATF's idea of "constructive possession." That is, if you have all the parts to assemble a firearm that is illegal without registration, then you essentially have that firearm and are in violation of the law. The idea is to prevent people from having a complete lower and complete upper sitting around but not attached to each other and claiming that nothing is going on, even as everybody knows it takes all of 5 seconds to combine them into a functional rifle.

However, you can indeed buy a barrel (or barreled upper) that is too short without having NFA paperwork. This is because often people want a muzzle device that may not be offered or because people may be indeed registering the complete rifle as a SBR or just going for a pistol. Still, one needs to be sure that you aren't running afoul of the ATF's interpretation. That is, I wouldn't have a lower completed and ready to go and then sit on the upper for an extended period of time before getting that muzzle device pinned on there.
 
Considering the AR is so modular, I suspect the ATF would consider it illegal. I think it might get trickier if you just had the barrel. In order for you to use it, you would have to disassemble the upper and reassemble it, requiring special tools. However, anyone could even do that in less than an hour and the tools are widely available. If the ATF chose to prosecute, you might fight it and prevail, or you might not. Either way, it would get expensive.

The only reason you would be breaking the law is because of the ATF's idea of "constructive possession."
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I detect a note of derision for the ATF's arbitrary and capricious policies? ;)

Either way, they are in charge of this kind of thing until someone of higher authority says they are not so illegal is illegal, like it or not.
 
Would that "constructive possession" apply if you had one complete AR and a short barreled upper laying around?
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Hard to say. I don't really know, and they'd have to search your house to find it, so you'd already be in trouble. Still, it's always best to follow the law.

Personally, I wouldn't have a short barreled upper just "laying around" unless I had a pistol lower or properly registered lower on hand too. If I wanted to have something pinned on, I'd get the device FIRST, then order the upper or barrel, and the moment the barrel arrived, it would be off to the 'smith to have it attached. Then I'd worry about building up the lower.

I detect a note of derision for the ATF's arbitrary and capricious policies?
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Who, me? You're saying I might be cynical and even slightly put off by government policies? Perish the thought. :D
 
Tell him two inches outside of prison is not worth six inches in prison every day of the rest of his life. Get it? Hopefully he will.
 
He has a problem if he ever has it in his possession and gets involved with a POP (Arkie term for Pi--ed off the Police) situation.
 
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