ATF asks dealers to keep records of powder sales, from latest Gun Week.

A

alan

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Thoughts on the above mentioned.

Editor:

First a general comment. Seems to me that there is one hell of a rotten smell in/about this latest ATF ploy.

Secondly, while I suppose one could produce an "explosive device" maybe, with smokeless powder, using BLACK POWDER would make more sense, though not much in the way of a Bang for One's Buck Would Be Obtained. Prospective "Bomb Makers" could readily do a whole lot better with ANFO, while spending less money also.

Thirdly, mention is made of "small quantities", which I've heard before. I've always wondered what the term might mean, SMALL QUANTITIES that is. Might this get to be another one of those odd things, akin to that SPORTING PURPOSES business, which so far as I know, has NEVER been defined.

Back when I was shooting in rifle competition, National Match Course, I used to purchase 4895 and 4350 in 8 pound containers at least, and 20 pound kegs, when I could find them. It was cheaper, quite a bit cheaper than buying powder in 1 pound cans, and one got the benefit of consistency, reducing lot to lot variation in the propellant.

Finally, doesn't the dealer already have to do enough record keeping? Seems to me that he/she/they do, perhaps to much at that, but what do I know? Anyhow, this latest from the good old boys down there at ATF should be quickly sent to that place where all the other silly ideas end up. The less heard of such foolishness, the better.
 
It's not just dealers, it's C&R holders too....I don't see anything wrong with asking for help with unusual powder purchases anymore than asking for a tip from the fertilizer store when someone buys a bunch of ammonium nitrate....
 
The gun shops around me won't sell powder to people if they look funny. They usually get the funny looking 17-18yrs showing up a few days before the 4th of July. ;)
 
Jamie Young wrote:

The gun shops around me won't sell powder to people if they look funny. They usually get the funny looking 17-18yrs showing up a few days before the 4th of July .

While I realize that "beauty lies in the eye of the beholder", please explain your "prople who look funny".

FrankDrebin:

I could be wrong, but a couple of C & R types that I know are "collectors", the sort of folks who don't sell things. In any case, they aren't in the business of selling propellants.

All:

I might possibly be overly suspicious, however I do have a longish memory, which causes me to view most things that come from the BATF as suspect, till proven otherwise. He that does not remember history shall relive it. Does that sound at all familiar?
 
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Funny looking people would be "young and immature looking" people. People that go into a gun shop and ask for black powder but don't know how much they need. Or people that want to buy all of the black powder you have in stock.

Nobody is gonna build a bomb out of IMR3031 or IMR4064.
 
And Al Kidya is not going to play around with a low explosive like small arms propellants when they can easily aquire or import any number of high explosives. Al Kidya are not short of brains and money. This is just another ratcheting-up on us under the guise of "the war". It is a game on people who do not know any better.

And we could do without these tax collectors altogether as well.
 
FrankDrebin:

I could be wrong, but a couple of C & R types that I know are "collectors", the sort of folks who don't sell things. In any case, they aren't in the business of selling propellants.
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I don't know of any FFL dealers who are in the business of selling gunpowder to terrorists, but they still got a letter....I have a C&R license, and I got the letter too...so did another C&R guy I know...
 
Anyone that works in the car or truck rental business was also sent warnings about keeping a look out for "odd things".

It just makes the FBI look like they are doing something.
 
Y'all may find this shocking, but...

...about once a week we have a conversation along these lines in the shop.

Young Baggy-Trousered Customer: "Uh, y'all got any black powder?"
Bored Clerk: "Nope. Become too much of a pain to carry."
YBTC: "Oh. How 'bout cannon fuse? Y'all got any of that?"
BC: "Nope."
YBTC: "Oh, uh, okay..." (Mills about for a bit, then leaves.)

My co-worker, Misty, once asked "Why didn't you tell him we had Pyrodex and stuff like that?", to which I replied "If he'd wanted it for his muzzle loader, he would've asked."

The winner, though, was the kid who followed the above two inquiries with "Uh, well, y'all got any glass jars?" This I swear.
I also swear that I did not respond with "Did the sign out front say 'Randy's Guns and Knives and Glass Jars and Amateur Bomb-Making Supplies'?" Sheesh, I was clever enough to make my own baby food jar bombs to set off in the vacant lot when I was a kid without getting busted; have teenage IQ's really slipped that far?

Purchases of powder greater than one or two pounds at a time is a vanishingly rare occurance outside of a few hardcore reloaders that tend to special order in bulk anyway. If some stranger came into the store that didn't speak fluent reloaderese and started stacking 20 or 30 1-pound cans of powder on the counter, you bet I'd suddenly remember some little-known Department of Transportation reg that only allowed me to sell him the powder 1lb at a time. Depending on how hinky he was acting, I might even provide Johnny Law with his license plate number, blind tool of the oppressive state that I am...
 
I could mention some uncontrolled hardware store items that make blackpowder and smokeless appear trivial - but I don't want to be accused of giving ignorant folk ideas. Of course the alleged target of the subject matter are not so ignorant, no doubt familiar with it - as well as other interesting things.

But what is next on this list of things to keep peoples' minds occupied anyway? People filling a spare gasoline can when they tank up?
 
But what is next on this list of things to keep peoples' minds occupied anyway? People filling a spare gasoline can when they tank up?
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No, but whipping out a funnel and filling a dozen glass bottles might cause me enough curiousity to investigate further. I'm all nosy that way...
 
All:

To each there own, as the old saying goes, however my view of this business is, shall we say, "colored" by the past performance of the BATF(E), as it is nowadays kmown, and the agencies that came before it, and this goes back to some truly ridiculous, though harmless stunts that followed closely the enactment of GCA'68.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have not forgotten Kenyon Ballew. I also remember other things. I have precious little trust in the BATF, with or without the E.
 
I believe this is one of those things that should be left up to discretion and common sense, and not to blanket directives handed down from an agency which is demonstrably not blessed with excesses of either of the aforementioned qualities.
 
Tamara
No, but whipping out a funnel and filling a dozen glass bottles might cause me enough curiousity to investigate further. I'm all nosy that way...
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... So am I. But a vehicle - or big red can - get's the goods no questions asked - regardless of how "suspicious" the buyer appears.
 
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