ATF admitting over reach with bump stocks?

L

L2R

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Just saw this today.
I was glad to see a glimmer of hope and thought I would pass it on.

As most already know, this was yet another, new way to satisfy the need to calm the masses by circumventing the constitution.

This isn't over and has all happened within the last 12 months. That in itself is impressive to get to this point but I am sure it isn't over yet.

At the very least, maybe this will be a new fidget spinner to occupy those who want to reduce our 2A rights for a while.







https://finance.yahoo.com/news/atf-admits-lacked-authority-issue-172200417.html


Exerpt:

Aposhian v. Barr, et al.

Washington, D.C., Sept. 18, 2019 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Congress has not prohibited bump stocks, but the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) has made them illegal with a Final Rule issued without statutory authority. In a noteworthy development, ATF’s latest court filing admits that it lacked rulemaking authority under the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act to issue a legislative rule. ATF thus now agrees with NCLA that the district court below was wrong on this point of law.
 
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Just to be clear, the article refers to a pending appeal before the U.S. Circuit Court. The fact that it is an appeal means that the aggrieved [former] bump stock owner has already lost once in District court.

The case raises a valid point and it certainly bears watching, but don't uncork the champagn just yet.
 
Figures... I just dug mine out and took a branch cutter to it. And now they want to act like the ban is just a recommendation.

Anyway... any real shooter knows bump stocks are worthless anyway... it was in the bottom of one of my many bins for a reason.
 
American Man said:
... any real shooter knows bump stocks are worthless anyway... it was in the bottom of one of my many bins for a reason.
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Bump stocks were a conspiracy by ammo manufacturers to get the real Tacticool shooters to triple their ammo consumption and perceived testosterone levels :D ;)
 
TXAZ said:
Bump stocks were a conspiracy by ammo manufacturers to get the real Tacticool shooters to triple their ammo consumption and perceived testosterone levels :D ;)
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I can see that now that you mention it. I can see someone that has never been in a gun fight thinking it is awesome. I was never even a fan of the 3 rd burst and can't recall ever using it. Got low on ammo a few times... 3 rd burst and full auto would have made matters worse.

I wasted money on it... I installed it, took it out back, fired 2 mags, took it off and that was that. Not a fan of it, but I had no intention of destroying the damn thing. lol
 
Even if we win on this, I wouldn't run out and buy one just yet.

Chances are, that will prompt the House will pass an actual law banning them. The Senate will vote for it to claim they're "compromising on gun safety," and the President will sign it.
 
It's a win if this stops the ATF from making new laws.

If they want to ban bump stocks, so be it. At least it goes through the proper process.
 
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Ban was just a political ploy but rest assured it won't stop there, I just hope Trump and the GOP don't cave on more stuff but I'm thinking they will. Bump stocks were just the first domino.
 
Tom Servo said:
Even if we win on this, I wouldn't run out and buy one just yet.

Chances are, that will prompt the House will pass an actual law banning them. The Senate will vote for it to claim they're "compromising on gun safety," and the President will sign it.
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Without being cynical, one could believe that the intent of the regulatory change was primarily to diffuse the political pressure in Congress to pass an arguably valid law. Instead, it's a reg that is reversible without congressional consent.

Remove that regulatory band-aid at the wrong time and we'll see the full Feinstein treatment.
 
DoubleNaught, probably not, since braces are not part of any federal laws. (That I am aware of). Unless the ATF reverses it's opinion that braces are not stocks, they cannot ban them unilaterally...if they tried, a win in this case might be of use (if the court says the ATF cannot simply redefine something as something else that is banned)
 
But if it is a win, does that invalidate their passage of judgment on wrist braces on pistols?
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The ATF originally said bump stocks violated no existing laws. one pull on the trigger, one shot. Years pass.

Post Vegas shooting, ATF is asked to review this again and they reverses their ruling.
They can't explain it or defend it because it is just wrong. I don't think they came to any other conclusion so the only logical answer is that they told to do it. And the masses were appeased.

But wait, that was easy! No debate, no bill introduced, just done in a matter of days!
The problem is exactly what you said, "what next, braces, pistol grip, gas engines?"

So this, to me, is a big deal. This needs to be fixed or it sets a precedence one can only imagine.
 
It's a win if this stops the ATF from making new laws.
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Point of order, here...

The ATF does not make laws. They do not have the legal authority to make laws. If they made a law, it would be an unconstitutional act and therefore, illegal.

What the ATF does, is make regulations to enforce laws, and make rulings on how those regulations are applied, and, to what.

Yes, in this case, I believe that the ATF (possibly under "secret" orders) threw a baby to the anti gun wolves, to keep the whole pack from charging at full speed.

No, I don't think it was right, in principle, to do that, BUT, it did shut down the wolves for a while, and it affected a relatively small number of people, directly. AND, as pointed out, since it was done via regulation, it can be reversed, via regulation without needed a law passed through Congress.

Bump stock owners were considered a sacrificial pawn, and, despite our personal desires the goal is not "protect everything" (though it SHOULD BE), the goal is greatest good for the greatest number.

its how those in power play the game, while we (pawns all) pay the price.
 
Post Vegas shooting, ATF is asked to review this again and they reverses their ruling.
They can't explain it or defend it because it is just wrong. I don't think they came to any other conclusion so the only logical answer is that they told to do it. And the masses were appeased.
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I guess I don't understand...
The United States ATF is a federal law enforcement agency within U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP), a component of the Department of ATF (DHS).
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Isn't this decision by the ATF contrary to their 'direction'?? Won't the acting Sec of DHS
get 'that phone call'??
 
USNRet93 said:
Isn't this decision by the ATF contrary to their 'direction'?? Won't the acting Sec of DHS
get 'that phone call'??
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Nope... because ATF isn’t a part of DHS. They are a part of DOJ.

DHS includes CBP, ICE, TSA, USCIS, USSS, FEMA, and US Coast Guard.

Don’t know where you quoted that, but ATF isn’t a part of CBP, either. We (I’m with CBP) enforce some ATF jurisdiction at the border, but two separate agencies.
 
Screwball said:
Nope... because ATF isn’t a part of DHS. They are a part of DOJ.

DHS includes CBP, ICE, TSA, USCIS, USSS, FEMA, and US Coast Guard.

Don’t know where you quoted that, but ATF isn’t a part of CBP, either. We (I’m with CBP) enforce some ATF jurisdiction at the border, but two separate agencies.
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Ok, but isn’t the recent ATF decision contrary to their previous ‘direction’, from whomever...and now that they have a contrary view, won’t the head of ATF get ‘that call’ from Barr or whomever?
 
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