assualt rifle question

demun

Inactive
hey i have seen many assualt rifles that have the guns trigger and handle WAY up to the front of the gun almost directly under the end of the barrel maybe only a few inches away but anyway the question i wanted to ask is that i have no clue what kinda guns they are excpet the vorteks cr-21 and the steyr aug which should give you guys another idea of what im talking about and i would like if someone could give me a link to a website to somewere that shows these guns and stuff because its been bugging me for a while now since i first saw these kind of guns

also another example is if anyone here knows nerf guns (because my son buys them) theres the i thinks its called the nerf "firefly" and ive seen an actual gun that looks very similar to it if you could could you tell me what it is?
 
Alot of Masume Shirow's (anime/manga artist) creations have a layout like that. Unfortunately, none of them are real. :(

Google Image Search things like "Seburo", "9Weapon", and "Ghost in the Shell poster" for examples.
 
Trigger only a few inches from the end of the barrel?

Don't know about that, but the Bushmaster M17 is another bullpup design that would remotely fit the description too. Though since it's only semi-auto, it isn't really an "assault rifle."
 
Bullpup is the word you are searching for; where the pistol grip is infront of the magazine [as with the FAMAS & AUG]. They work quite simply by having a long trigger bar linkage inside the body, connecting trigger to mechanism. Usually the bars are about 30cm long and result in an awful trigger pull action.

A few links:http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/SA80.htm
http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/machine%5Fguns/mannlicher/
Famas.html


We Brits have used the SA80 bullpup rifle for some years now and have consistently disliked it, despite the Government consistently trialling it and stating that it is the best available. Many might disagree! We originally selected this design to replace the ageing SLR (FN FAL), because our role seemed confined to zooming around Europe in the back of armoured fighting vehicles with the Warsaw Pact as the main problem. By the time we brought this rifle into service in the late 80s, it was clear that this was no longer the case and the WP came apart at the seams. We quickly found ourselves in the Gulf [and stayed there!], where SA80 failed dramatically, followed by a succession of military tasks around the world.
Now we are in the position where we need a good all-round rifle and many are taking about a change to the 6.8x43mm round, which we are tinkering with. I can't see it unless there is a NATO change of mind, which means really a US change of mind. The US unilaterally adopted 5.56mm in the late 60s and then standardised it throughout their whole Army, which threw NATO into a turmoil of catching up. When we standardised to SS109 5.56mm, everyone had to rebarrel their rifles and this may happen again if we change calibres - I can't see it happening anytime soon, can you?
 
Hey what is it with British Military and Bullpup rifles?? Are they going to replace the SA80 with another bullpup??
 
Hey what is it with British Military and Bullpup rifles?? Are they going to replace the SA80 with another bullpup??

I don't know why we have a boner for bullpup rifles, but I think there is a measure of old fashioned stubbornness there somewhere! Just after WW2 when everyone was looking around for new weapons, a bloke called Stephan Jannsen created a wierd looking 'bullpup' rifle called the EM2 in 7mm Short. It had the same barrel length as the .303 Lee Enfield in a package no longer than an M1 carbine. It looked odd but was actually really good; Jannsen used to fire it one handed to demonstrate the balance, etc.

Parliament got hold of it and got excited, because it was a really good design and they wanted to get NATO to adopt it. Of course every country in NATO wanted every other country to adopt their rifle, but the US was holding an 'ace' up their sleeve - 'we're the biggest member country'. True, no one could deny it, but they did not have the moritorium on good design. After some too-ing and fro-ing the EM2 was shelved, mainly because NATO had decided to adopt the 7.62mm round as standard and we Brits went with the FN FAL as our rifle of choice. Interestingly if you read 'The great rifle controversy' - a book all about the US choice of rifle from pre-WW2 to now - the author makes a compelling arguement that the FN was better than the M14; but politics being politics meant the M14 was adopted.

Spin forward to the early 1970s and the US had gone with a 5.56mm round during their Vietnam campaign and chose, afterward, to replace their NATO committed troops' M14s with the M16A1. NATO, therefore, had no choice but to order a review of weapons and ammo.

We Brits dusted off the EM2 idea and replaced wood with plastic; bent some recycled baked bean tins around it and called it the 'Individual Weapon'. It fired a 4.85mm round that was reputed to be very effective, but anyone with some history knew that the US would want its way and we changed over to a 5.56mm round in the XM70E1. This was a political rifle from the outset and in the late seventies it was handed over to the Army to trial. I saw one arrive on the range in a black plastic case, taken out and fired then put back away - it was treated like a precision piece of equipment. The very first time soldiers got hold of it things began to break off - hey, they still do!

So unfortunately we adopted the thing and it didn't work very well; exponents of it will always say that 'it's very accurate' - and it is. As a platform for getting a bullet from A to B it is fantastic, but as a combat tool it is a disaster! After Gulf War 1 it was so heavily criticsed that change was initiated and Heckler & Koch took on the job of sorting it out; which took them a few years and it was released as the SA80A2. Better but we didn't adopt every modification that HK recommended and we got what we got!

The Army wanted the G36. During our protracted operations in Bosnia with UNPROFOR [1991-1995] on Op Grapple, we were working alongside other european armies and we took a long hard look at the G36. An impromptu trial in some of the severest conditions imaginable resulted in many senior officers giving it their rubber stamp of approval - unfortunately it was a German rifle and not British. That HK was owned by British Aerospace is immaterial!

So we are stuck with SA80 until something 'buck rogers' appears like the offensive rifle [OHWS] with laser guided hot dogs and side mounted expresso machine.

Sorry if I drone on - but I'm passionate in my dislike of the SA80 and bullpup rifles in general. The AUG is crap, ask any Austrailian soldier, and the FAMAS is rock bottom!
 
thx

hey man thanks for tellin me about the "bullpup" thing and even tho theres the trigger thing i still like the design and plan on creating a "perfect bullpup" gun because i prefer the design because it is more comfortable for me and seems to have slightly less recoil on your elbows
 
The P-90 has a really short barrel and the trigger being real close to the front. The mag is on the top back. I have read that the bull pup design as with the famas,aug,tar21,L85A1, and so on are harder to reload. Just something I read in a shooter magazine.
I do know though that you can get bull pup stocks for AR and mini 14 rifles at many gun dealers and gun shows.
 
I don't believe that bullpups are harder to reload than a conventional assault rifle; you just have to get used to it! When we first converted from SLR to SA80 there were loads of guys trying to load the magazine into the handguard! After a while you just learn to put the magazine into your 'armpit' - which is where the magazine aperture is!
I guess the one advantage the design gives you is a 20" barrel in a package the overall length of a carbine.

The P90 has two steel rods that connect trigger to trigger mechanism; it has an unusual two stage trigger pull. When you select 'automatic' you can pull the trigger to a stop and get a single round, but if you keep squeezing you overcome the stop and get automatic. It's quite a feature.
 
also another example is if anyone here knows nerf guns (because my son buys them) theres the i thinks its called the nerf "firefly" and ive seen an actual gun that looks very similar to it if you could could you tell me what it is?

If this is the "NERF" that has the missles in a cylinder, it looks sorta like the Arwen or Manville gun, used for launching smoke, gas and (I think) HE grenades.
 
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