Asp handgun?
- Thread starter Ransom
- Start date
Armament Systems & Procedures (ASP) of Appleton, Wisconsin, converted the 'ASP Combat' from the S&W M39 9mm. (mid 80's)
The goal was a reliable, concealable pistol for police and security services. (3.23" barrel)
The outside of the M39 was smoothed/bevelled, working surfaces ground/polished, new recoil spring added, and trigger components worked/smoothed.
The slotted side magazine (7 rds) showed remaining rounds through clear plastic grips.
The Guttersnipe channel sight allowed very fast sighting.
Made in small quantities to special order. Not available to the general public.
The goal was a reliable, concealable pistol for police and security services. (3.23" barrel)
The outside of the M39 was smoothed/bevelled, working surfaces ground/polished, new recoil spring added, and trigger components worked/smoothed.
The slotted side magazine (7 rds) showed remaining rounds through clear plastic grips.
The Guttersnipe channel sight allowed very fast sighting.
Made in small quantities to special order. Not available to the general public.
singleshot
New member
Try to fond a copy of the Februaru 2000 issue of "GUNS" magazine. It has an ASP on the cover.
Edmund Rowe
New member
Where's this gunstore???
Edmund
erowe@fiamg.net
Edmund
erowe@fiamg.net
Archery and Gun Outfitters in Montgomeryville ,Pa. www.archerygunoutfit.baweb.com or (215) 368-3600 Like I said it was a few months ago, but it was on a bottom shelf and they weren`t exactly pushing it. With any luck it`s still there. Marcus
The link doesn't seem to be working for some reason. Isn't the ASP what the new CS-9 was modeled after? They're good-looking guns.
Ben
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Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited April 22, 2000).]
Ben
------------------
Almost Online IM: BenK911
ICQ # 53788523
"Gun Control Is Being Able To Hit Your Target"
[This message has been edited by Ben (edited April 22, 2000).]
Ransom:
Actually, the ASP was a design by PARIS THEODORE of SEVENTREES LTD. It's purpose was to create a service calibre sidearm in roughly PPK/S dimensions for the armed professional. The ASP was, indeed, a severely cut down Model 39. The GUTTERSNIPE sight was another of Paris'designs and was designed purely for combat accuracy at real world close quarters confrontation ranges.
The ASP also incorporated Paris' patented "forefinger pocket" in the trigger guard which was also rapidly copied--without credit as with so many of his innovations though he did get some satisfaction from patent infringement suits.
The LEXAN grips with the window to enable the shooter to check his magazine capacity was another of his designs and another example of his approach to practical, real world confrontations at a time when the "experts" all maintained that one could consistently count the rounds fired.
The ASP created a cottage industry in gunsmithing truncated pocket autos. DEVEL hopped on the bandwagon fairly quickly. S&W laughed when it was shown to them, but a decade or so later, they produced a factory version (albeit with without many of the fine points and with a double column magazine because mag capacity was the hot item though it detracted from the concealability which was what the ASP was all about). This factory version in the envelope at least was the 469 and 669 to be followed by all of the various other model designations reflected different "improvements" in their auto pistol inventory.
Later, the organization which is currently known as ASP, produced the weapon in a semi-custom version at extremely high prices. Theodore was never associated with this company.
Hope this is helpful info.
Actually, the ASP was a design by PARIS THEODORE of SEVENTREES LTD. It's purpose was to create a service calibre sidearm in roughly PPK/S dimensions for the armed professional. The ASP was, indeed, a severely cut down Model 39. The GUTTERSNIPE sight was another of Paris'designs and was designed purely for combat accuracy at real world close quarters confrontation ranges.
The ASP also incorporated Paris' patented "forefinger pocket" in the trigger guard which was also rapidly copied--without credit as with so many of his innovations though he did get some satisfaction from patent infringement suits.
The LEXAN grips with the window to enable the shooter to check his magazine capacity was another of his designs and another example of his approach to practical, real world confrontations at a time when the "experts" all maintained that one could consistently count the rounds fired.
The ASP created a cottage industry in gunsmithing truncated pocket autos. DEVEL hopped on the bandwagon fairly quickly. S&W laughed when it was shown to them, but a decade or so later, they produced a factory version (albeit with without many of the fine points and with a double column magazine because mag capacity was the hot item though it detracted from the concealability which was what the ASP was all about). This factory version in the envelope at least was the 469 and 669 to be followed by all of the various other model designations reflected different "improvements" in their auto pistol inventory.
Later, the organization which is currently known as ASP, produced the weapon in a semi-custom version at extremely high prices. Theodore was never associated with this company.
Hope this is helpful info.
Hey 256M-S nice of you to wander over this way and bring the Paris T. info with you. As for the ASP let us not forget the recontoured slide. They run about $1000 in excellent condition in Texas and Oklahoma. There was a special limited edtion done in a cased set with a James Bond book numbered to the gun. The book may have even been autographed. The set I have seen for around $2000-$2500, but it did not sell. I always saw it at gun shows, the guy might still have it.
Ahhh...this explains it.
I was reading this thread wondering why the name ASP sounded so familiar, and *not* as a collapsible baton...and why I kept thinking of James Bond.
I think one of the post-Ian Fleming James Bond books (probably by James Gardner) has James using an ASP pistol. I forget why he shed his PPK...but thats okay, since now he uses whatever gun the director thinks looks snazzy, has lost his Aston-Martin to the marketing forces of BMW, and probably will be drinking Sprite instead of vodka martinis in his next outing. Image is nothing, obey your thirst...and shaken, not stirred, please.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
I was reading this thread wondering why the name ASP sounded so familiar, and *not* as a collapsible baton...and why I kept thinking of James Bond.
I think one of the post-Ian Fleming James Bond books (probably by James Gardner) has James using an ASP pistol. I forget why he shed his PPK...but thats okay, since now he uses whatever gun the director thinks looks snazzy, has lost his Aston-Martin to the marketing forces of BMW, and probably will be drinking Sprite instead of vodka martinis in his next outing. Image is nothing, obey your thirst...and shaken, not stirred, please.
Mike
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"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects." -Robert Heinlein
Daniel Watters
New member
Paris Theodore only produced 300 ASP conversions before he got in over his head. In 1976, Armament Systems and Procedures Inc. licensed the manufacturing right to the ASP pistol. As part of the agreement, ASP Inc. agreed to fill all of the outstanding backorders, some of which ran back to 1971. From information and belief, ASP Inc. was tied up through 1981 fulfilling this portion of the agreement. Starting in 1982, ASP Inc. began promoting the 'reintroduction' of the ASP pistol. However, liability premiums and the introduction of the S&W 469/669 finally caught up with ASP Inc. in the mid-'80s, resulting in the cessation of further conversions.
As for the ASP pistol's fictional use by 007, author John Gardner went through several successors to the Walther PPK before finally settling on the ASP in his fourth entry of the series. (Previous armaments included the FN 1903/1907 9x20mm, the HK VP70, and the HK P7.)
Gardner at least gave the correct reason for the PPK falling out of favor with British agencies. During an attempted kidnapping of Princess Anne and her husband, their protection officer's PPK malfunctioned several times which resulted in the officer being shot. Thankfully, the attacker was just a nut case and fled in the face of opposition. However, at least one more person was shot at another location before the attacker was captured.
As for the ASP pistol's fictional use by 007, author John Gardner went through several successors to the Walther PPK before finally settling on the ASP in his fourth entry of the series. (Previous armaments included the FN 1903/1907 9x20mm, the HK VP70, and the HK P7.)
Gardner at least gave the correct reason for the PPK falling out of favor with British agencies. During an attempted kidnapping of Princess Anne and her husband, their protection officer's PPK malfunctioned several times which resulted in the officer being shot. Thankfully, the attacker was just a nut case and fled in the face of opposition. However, at least one more person was shot at another location before the attacker was captured.
In the book (I forget which one), Bond is forced to switch because a failure to feed in another agent's PPK prompts a department-wide ban on the Walther.
The book lost some credibility for me when Gardner creates dramatic tension by having Bond need to find out, amid unfriendly folk, whether his recently-recovered and pocketed ASP is still loaded. Gardner acts as if Bond needs to pop the mag to discover the pistol's condition. Uh, hey, see that window Jim? One of the ASP's most distinctive features and the author doesn't even bother to use it.
The book lost some credibility for me when Gardner creates dramatic tension by having Bond need to find out, amid unfriendly folk, whether his recently-recovered and pocketed ASP is still loaded. Gardner acts as if Bond needs to pop the mag to discover the pistol's condition. Uh, hey, see that window Jim? One of the ASP's most distinctive features and the author doesn't even bother to use it.
Thanks for the kind greeting and welcome, Jeff.
The James Bond hype was ASP INC BS, not Seventrees.
The ASP outlived its time when S&W started producing factory items which were close enough in form to the original so that most folks couldn't tell the difference and couldn't see the price advantage. It was for a time, though, the smallest service calibre sidearm going.
Seventrees' ASPS were strictly custom production items and delivery was slow and that was up front. While they had some problems with production stemming in one notable case from employing a popular gunwriter cum ordnance expert to execute the conversion, they didn't sell the ASP production rights because they couldn't meet demand. Seventrees turned over the ASP production not because they were "over their heads" in meeting production, but because of another issue altogether stemming from the political climate of the time and not related atall to production or production capability. The resulting brouhaha halted all of Paris' production from that time forward.
The James Bond hype was ASP INC BS, not Seventrees.
The ASP outlived its time when S&W started producing factory items which were close enough in form to the original so that most folks couldn't tell the difference and couldn't see the price advantage. It was for a time, though, the smallest service calibre sidearm going.
Seventrees' ASPS were strictly custom production items and delivery was slow and that was up front. While they had some problems with production stemming in one notable case from employing a popular gunwriter cum ordnance expert to execute the conversion, they didn't sell the ASP production rights because they couldn't meet demand. Seventrees turned over the ASP production not because they were "over their heads" in meeting production, but because of another issue altogether stemming from the political climate of the time and not related atall to production or production capability. The resulting brouhaha halted all of Paris' production from that time forward.
ARRRRGGGHHH!!
I just called the gunshop that Marcus mentioned, and the gun sold this morning for $450, with two mags. D#$%!!!
As you can probably tell, I have been looking for one of thse FOREVER. They never show up around here, and I'd love to own one. If anyone EVER sees one up for sale, please please drop a note on this board. You'd be doing a fellow shooter a great favor.
Thanks,
-Tim Enders
I just called the gunshop that Marcus mentioned, and the gun sold this morning for $450, with two mags. D#$%!!!
As you can probably tell, I have been looking for one of thse FOREVER. They never show up around here, and I'd love to own one. If anyone EVER sees one up for sale, please please drop a note on this board. You'd be doing a fellow shooter a great favor.
Thanks,
-Tim Enders
Tim Enders: RE: ASP Availability.
Try ESF Sales (954) 946-6803. Have only casually met these folks and never done business with them but I've seen several ASPS from ASP Inc for sure. ESF is right up there on their pricing though. Will guarantee you won't find any $450 Asps but if you're serious, they may have what you want.
They're interesting pieces and are certainly innovatative and significant in the field of combat weaponcraft. Dunno why you personally want an ASP but you may be disappointed in what you get for the price. I've used the ASP by the way in it's early form and preferred more conventional sights though they did what the designer wanted them to do quite well. The accuracy capability was also less than I wanted in a primary carry sidearm, but given current acceptable standards, it's probably not as bad as I thought at the time and once again, they shot more than acceptably for the purpose for which they were designed.
Good luck in your search.
Try ESF Sales (954) 946-6803. Have only casually met these folks and never done business with them but I've seen several ASPS from ASP Inc for sure. ESF is right up there on their pricing though. Will guarantee you won't find any $450 Asps but if you're serious, they may have what you want.
They're interesting pieces and are certainly innovatative and significant in the field of combat weaponcraft. Dunno why you personally want an ASP but you may be disappointed in what you get for the price. I've used the ASP by the way in it's early form and preferred more conventional sights though they did what the designer wanted them to do quite well. The accuracy capability was also less than I wanted in a primary carry sidearm, but given current acceptable standards, it's probably not as bad as I thought at the time and once again, they shot more than acceptably for the purpose for which they were designed.
Good luck in your search.
MarcusIt is about the size of an MK-9. It began life as a S&W mod 39 or 39-2 so that is the width, though the slide had been narrowed some. The mags have a little wedge extension on them so your pinky has a place to go. Since it has an alloy frame it weighs less than a Kahr. I never did care for the Guttersnipe sight either, some did. A Colt Pocket Nine would probably be a better choice. It would be easier to find right now and it would be cheaper.