ASM 1861 Colt Navy - Nipple Size????

B

bedbugbilly

New member
I have an ASM 1861 Colt Navy .36 - made in the 80s for CVA - it's a really nice pistol - high quality and unfired. I want to change the original nipples to Ampco nipples. Can anyone advise as to what the size is? I've looked at several supplier's lists, etc. but can't find it. I'm assuming it is probably metric? Thanks for any help! :)
 
If you don't get any other replies you can take one of the nipples to your local hardware store and they should be able to tell you what the thread size and diameter are.
 
As Ronald Reagan always said, "Well...."

Bedbug,

Sorry I have not answered your PM yet. I will do that here.

I checked the nipples in an ASM .44 this morning and they appear to be 6 x 1. I also looked at the price list (Track of the Wolf) and did not see a direct replacement by name.

I am an ASM fan and I envy you picking up an unfired 1861.

What is the date code on the pistol?

Tnx,
 
Ooops

I mis-spoke.

I meant that the .44 Cal ASM Remington 1858 appears to have a 5.5x1 nipple.

I don't see a 5.5 by 1 sized nipple on the TOTW site, but when I measured the nipples in that forty four, that is what I got.

Tnx,
 
I don't see a 5.5 by 1 sized nipple on the TOTW site,
Click to expand...
Could it be listed as a non-metric spec?
I ask because I had a similar issue with a different pistol & after getting the correct nipples I discovered that the thread WAS listed, but as a 12X28, not a metric thread designation, even though the pistol, was metric threaded.

Hmm................a project rear it's ugly head.:eek:
Is there a metric/non-metric conversion chart out there somewhere??????:D
 
I took a 6 X 75mm nipple out of my Pietta 58 Remington Navy and it is larger in diameter than the nuipple from the ASM 61 Navy. As soon as I locate my thread gauge, I'll check to see if they are possibly the 12-28. I'm thinking that I brought a 12-28 tap out here with me so it should be easy enough to check and I'll let you all know. That probably is why it isn't listed in any of the supplier's nipple lists that I've been looking at. The last Ampco nipple I bought was in about 1966 or so for my Remington Zouave that I used for many years while shooting NSSA. It is still in the rifle and in good shape after who knows how many rounds I put through it. If Ampco nipples in a revolver will hold up anywhere near as well as that one did, it will be worth it to change them. Only difference though is in the price - back in 1966 I paid $2.00 for the Ampco musket nipple! :D

Doc - I've looked alll over the 61 Navy for the date code and still can't locate it. The paperwork that was in the original box states 1988 though. Like you, I have a "thing" for the good ASMs when you can find them. This one is top notch quality wise - perfect fit and finish, crisp easy action - a dream to hold. I recently picked up a ASM '62 pocket police with a brass frame - unfired - same quality as the 61. I have a thing for the "Navies". The only .44 I have is the Richland Arms 58 NMA that I corresponded with you about that is missing the loading lever.

As with everything in life - wouldn't it be perfect if the manufacturers used one standardized nipple size? Wishful thinking on my part, I know . . . . :)

Thanks to everyone for your help - it is greatly appreciated. I'll report back as soon as I have a chance to check the 12-28 thread size. Thanks to all! Sincerely, bedbug :)
 
Here are the standard nipple thread sizes. The metric 5.5x1 (actually 5.5x0.9) is not a standard metric thread; as you noted it's actually 12x28.

nipplesizes.jpg
 
If it is a 12X28, like my Uberti/Cimmaron 1858 Remington .44 then the nipples listed for a Ruger Old Army, any Uberti cap 'n ball except the Walker, or the Thompson/Seneca rifle,or a Colt C&B repro will fit as they are 12X28 also.:)
 
Be careful here. Yes, the thread sizes are compatible, but the length of the nipple will be different, and that matters. You'll notice that there is more than one 12x28 on ToTW's chart; PCC-A, PRA-A, PTC-A, PTC-S and PTC-PA. The difference is length. You should choose a 12x28 for a gun that's closest in size and caliber to the one you want to fit, in this case I'd suggest PCC-A rather than the ROA's PRA-A. The PCC-A is 0.501" long, while he PRA-A is 0.522" long.

Unfortunately they don't give length numbers, so the only way to know what's what is to buy them and find out they're too long or too short. Don't ask me how I know that.
 
Mykeal

I want to verify my concern so as to correspond to the guidance you just provided.

A longer nipple (The part of the nipple that is external to the cylinder....The part of the nipple that accepts the cap) will place the caps on the cylinders that are not in battery closer to the recoil shield and risk chain firing the pistol as the cylinder moves back during discharge.

This is correct..right?
 
Just a thought here.
Why not measure the existing nipples for length then ask the folks at TOTW which one is closest. I have heard they are really helpful on the phone.

Failing that there are several sites of those selling nipples that categorize them by what pistol they fit/are designed for. Why not try going to a site that lists that way & checking it against TOTW's cat #'s??

Which sites have you checked, I may have a link to some you might not have found yet as I just went through a saga of finding nipples myself.

As for being too long in the "cone" It is possible, I suppose to either jam caps against the recoil shield & set them off, or if way too long tie up the cylinder & stop it turning at all.:confused:
 
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Doc,

Longer nipple cones may interfere with the recoil shield, and an AD, or chain fire, from a chamber not in battery could occur. That's an unlikely scenario, but it's possible. I would be more concerned about the geometry of the hammer striking the cap at an odd angle; repeated blows where the hammer face hits just a portion of the nipple through the cap (the hammer face is at an angle instead of flat against the cap) will result in uneven wear and prematurely wear out the nipple. This is more of a concern with the cheaper non-stainless steel nipples.

Shorter nipple cones could result in the hammer hitting the frame before the face hits the cap, or the frame absorbing most of the force so the hammer blow on the nipple is weak and less effective.
 
Bedbug and Mykeal

Mykeal,

Logically, chain fire from this source might be more frequent on a pistol in which the recoil shield (Colt) and ring is worn. True?

OP's pistol is unfired so the cylinder gap should be good and front to back movement of the cylinder should be minimal. (By "minimal" I mean essentially the same as when it was put together.)

I am trying to verify that I understand the wear patterns and effects in Colt revolvers.

I am also getting ready to recommend leaving the original nipples in the pistol for a while....Shoot it a bit....And then decide if Ampco nipples would make that much difference. Might be more trouble than it is worth.

Tnx,
 
Doc Hoy said:
Logically, chain fire from this source might be more frequent on a pistol in which the recoil shield (Colt) and ring is worn. True?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure. Haven't really thought it through. Recoil shields (except for abused brass frames) don't typically wear very much - I've never 'worn one out' for instance. Let's just say that if you have a cylinder/frame combination that has a significant amount of fore & aft freeplay, and if the nipples extend beyond the back of the cylinder body, then a chain fire is a definite possibility.

As for replacing new OEM nipples with Tresos right out of the box, well, I don't do that. I wear them out first - sometimes that doesn't take very long.
 
Doc - I came to the same conclusion last night about leaving the original nipples in it, shooting it for a while - say a couple of hundred rounds through it - and then deciding on Ampco nipples. I haven't had a chance to check the threads yet but when I take it down to check them, I'll try and mike the length of the cone the best I can. When I had it apart to clean, I was surprised to find that #11 caps seemed to fit the cones fairly well and tight. That's fine as I have a bunch of them in my "cap stash". Once I pull the nipples and verify the threads, etc. I'll post here again. It really doesn't matter to me if I end up using steel nipples or Ampco as long as they work good. I just figured that if I could find some Ampco nipples for it, I'd change them out as they should last quite a while over steel. I'm going to call Track as soon as I know the thread size and see what they have to say and what they suggest. I'm one of those fellas that likes to have a spare set handy "just in case". You know the type - go to the hardware store to buy a half dozen screws and you buy a dozen "just in case" you need them. My shop at home is well supplied in that manner - have tried to be better about it but you know how it goes - you clean and get rid of stuff and then a week later you need it even though it's been sitting around for years. :D
 
Whoa! There you have it.

Bedbug! We just made history!

Most of the times on this forum, I am agreeing with or learning from the things Mykeal says.

Now...For once....Mykeal is agreeing with US.

If I didn't have to run out the door to go to work, I'd have a second cup of coffee over this one.

Congrats!
 
I've measured nipples with a good caliper and screwed them in guns and...find the 12-28 is about .005 bigger diameter than 5.5x.9 in most cases. Makes a 12-28 go in hard. Easier to get stuck in the gun once the fouling gets in the threads some. I'm referring to Treso nipples that I've measured compared to the metric Italian ones.
There is a slight difference between 12-28 and 5.5x.9.
I don't know where the list above came from but things can vary.The Italian nipples vary in diameter from one set to the next depending on where you get them ...as an example.
As an example....the 12-28 nips of Treso are a tight fit in my Uberti Paterson. The 5.5x.9 aren't.
Anyway...look at the chart above...the major diameters in decimal for 5.5x.9 and 12-28 are the same at .216 but in metric MM in major diameter they are different at 5.5 and 5.486. In thread pitch the 5.5x.9 is .9 and the 12-28 is .907. Slight differences in other than the decimal diameter. You'd think if the dec. diameters are the same the MM diameters would be the same but they aren't. Add the differences in tolerances when people make the threads and the different gear ratio set ups on different lathes things get a little different again.
You know....like maybe they are supposed to be the same diameter but in some cases aren't. Must be the tolerances the machinsts work within when they turn the nips out.
Anyway...you'd want to pay attention to how a nip feels when you screw it in to assertain whether or not it's too tight or too loose. I don't assume 5.5x.9 and 12-28 are the same. It shows when you screw the nips in.
 
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