Arrest in NY/Assault Gun

K

K80Geoff

New member
"Patakis' Law"

I have just been made aware of an arrest in made in Dutchess County NY for possession of an "Assault Gun". Apparently a 21 year old purchased an "Assault Gun" and "High Capacity Ammunition Feeding Devices" at a gun show and was promptly arrested by the city police. I do not have further details but will try to get them. Here is the original e Mail from the NY gun politics group:

 
Date: Tue Dec 19, 2000 9:07am
Subject: Re: PATAKI LAW ARREST

Tim & Scott Here is info so far. Defendant Corey Francis was arrested on 11/30/00 after a search warrant(supposedly) was executed on his residence. It
seems he bought the semi-rifle and hicap mag at a gun show. He showed it to friends and the City of Poughkeepsie cops caught wind of it somehow. They
got a judge to sign search warrent. He was arrested for Crim poss of firearm third degree, a felony. He was arraigned and remanded on $1000,000 bail in local
criminal court !! . He later appeared before Hon. George Marlow of Dutchess County court with a public defender. She got bail lowered to $7,500 and he
was bonded and released. They kept asking him why he needed that type of gun. He refused to answer. The judge expressed dismay that someone could buy "such a gun" so easily. There is no indication of prior record. He does not have $$ for private lawyer. He was indicted at request of Dutchess DA "gun prosecutor" on indictment 146/2000. He will be arraigned on 12/21
before County Judge Hayes. I will be there. Hayes was newly appointed by Pataki and elected in Nov. He was interviewed by us as he was challenged by another lawyer for the job. He is a former prosecutor and defense lawyer. Lots of criminal law experience. No real firearms savvy, but his friend, County Judge Dolan is NRA and familiar with guns. I spoke to his PD atty. Jennifer Burton 845-486-2280 today. She will advise Corey that we are interested in his case. She was not real forthcoming with info. as expected. I told her we
could provide technical info for her. I will get copies of all docs asap. It looks like Dutchess DA is goin full bore with this prosecution. He is Repub. and has had "sportsmen" support in the past. I called local Federation with a report. Perhaps a meet with him is in order at some point. This is all UNCONFIRMED at this point. If this is true Dutchess gun owners are in for a rough ride and better start goin underground if they own "ugly guns".
David Warshaw
SCOPE Dutchess

If this is what it seems it is indeed a dark day in the great state of NY. I do not know what specific gun the "Perp" purchased or whether it is indeed a prohibited firearm, although it appears that it is.when I get further details I will post them.


Geoff Ross
 
Hmmm...

They kept asking him why he needed that type of gun.
Click to expand...
I was unaware that we now live in a "need"-based economy. That sucks. Now they're going to take away everything anyone makes over about $30k a year. You don't "need" more than that to survive. Drive a Lexus, 'Vette, Beemer, or Grand Cherokee? Turn it in, folks. All of us are going to be issued Honda Civics, unless you "need" a truck, in which case you'll get an S-10. "Oh, but I need my Suburban or Duallie to pull my horse trailer!" No, you don't. You don't "need" horses, so we're taking them. Got a PC faster than 750MHz? We're taking it and leaving you with a 1st Generation iMac. It's all you really "need". How much land do you live on...

How that socialist twit managed to rise to a position of authority in the NYS legal system is a crystalline example of all that is wrong with this nation.
 
Geoff, please do keep us posted. Here at SCOPE Erie Co. no email alert has been sent yet. I will check the home-page.

Like you said Tamara, the assault of PROPERTY rights begins with the assault on GUN rights. After the latter are eradicated then are the former. The socialists are intent on apportioning reality for us.
 
Hi Bam Bam. I'm glad to hear that SCOPE is still around. I used to be a member back when I lived in Lockport. Does NYS now have some type of "black gun" law, worse then the restrictions of the so-called crime bill?

Keep us informed on this.

Bri
 
If this guy opens a legal defense fund I got $50 right here.

It would be interesting to know what sort of gun is involved. "Semi-rifle and hicap mag"? I understand my Ruger 10/22, a semi-rifle with a hicap (10 rounds) mag, is considered an "assault weapon" in CA now, dunno about New Yawk.
 
[paranoid mode on]

It makes you wonder if it was a setup. If it's illegal to BUY such a firearm, it must certainly be illegal to SELL same firearm. So, why no mention of the guy who sold it being picked up? I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that it was a sting to see who would be the lucky first person to test how far the persecutors...I mean, prosecutors...can push the limit of the law. You know, see what they can get away with before they start arresting people left and right for buying an "assualt rifle", like my Remington .22 rifle, with the 15 round tube magazine.....


[paranoid mode off]
 
We could sure use some more information here.

Like what specific law he broke. Like what specific model of firearm he bought. It may, in fact, be against the laws in his area to posess such a gun and/or magazine.

I know that in Ohio it is illegal to posess a magazine that holds more than 30 rounds (if you also have a gun that it fits) without a "Dangerous Ordnance" permit from your local LEA. Of course I see these magazines at gun shows all the time...

It is all a matter of selective enforcement.
 
Update

OK Here is what I have been able to find out about this case:

The gun was an AK or an AK clone. Purchased at a gun show with one magazine.

Date of purchase unknown. this may be important because Pataki's law went into effect Nov 1.

Defendant will have a hearing soon (this week). Has a Public Defender due to lack of funds. SCOPE NY has offered to assist the PD.

I was in Poughkeepsie today, nothing in the local papers.

Information is slow in coming. The SCOPE people want to keep this low key due to the anti stance of most of the local new media.

SCOPE NY website for those who are interested:

http://www.scopeny.org/index.html


Scroll down to the bottom of the page and click on VISIT to view posts on the newsgroup.

More to come.


Geoff Ross
 
Yup. While some actual details (that I don't know) may change the case, my take on the Pataki gun ban shows that (among other absurdities) mere possession of an AK-47 receiver manufactured after 9/14/94, whether part of an assembled gun or not, is a violent felony.

His only hope is a claim that this particular law directly violates New York State Civil Rights Law, Article 2 §4: Right to keep and bear arms. A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms cannot be infringed. As this is part of NYS's civil rights law, it CANNOT be brushed away with a claim that it refers to "state's rights" and CANNOT be read as anything but an individual (civil) right, and because the AK-47 is clearly a military weapon it is suitable for militia purposes. The only hope the DA has against such a defense is interpreting the "well regulated" clause as "government regulated", which first should be demolished by the original intent of the phrase (prepared, functional), and then demolished again by observing that NY does not "regulate" a militia under this civil right as individuals are not permitted to "keep" their arms (just try joining the NY National Guard and then taking an M16 home).

While not a lawyer, I've poured over NY gun laws for several years and would dearly like to help out this case in any way. Anyone connected to this case, please contact me at carl@donath.org.
 
I forgot to mention it was posted on the shotguns forum a few days ago and contains some nice information, but I just can't bring myself to read the whole damn thing.
 
Yup, reading the "NY Special" page is painful. It was a lot more painful writing it. That 14-page paper demonstrates how difficult it is to find a truly legal gun in NY, and how many obscure laws can send a resident, acting with good faith and a pure heart, to jail for a long time. (Come to think of it, the Pataki gun ban happened after writing that page...guess I gotta go plow thru all the latest legal crud and see if it changes anything. AAARRRGGGHHH!)

That page, despite agonizing detail, matters little to this thread's topic, as it sought to find a gun that is wholly legal, as opposed to detailed analysis of why other guns are not and why those laws are unconstitutional and violate NY civil rights law. You'll want to read http://www.donath.org/Rants/NYAWBan which analyzes the "assault weapon" portion of the Pataki ban.

I suppose it's time to write an analysis of and defense for the Corey Francis case (based on what little I know of it) - give me a few days.
 
BTW:

all kinds of lawyer mind numbing legal speak

That mind numbing legal speak, aside from the quotes of the law, was not written by a lawyer. It was written by a NY resident with no legal backround, who was making a vain effort to figure out what the law actually said, and how NY could restrict guns and still conceivably not violate the Constitution or NY civil rights law.
 
Corey Francis

Well now the story has changed! It appears the gun in question was not an AK but a Tec 9!

The defendant apparently purchased the Tec 9 illegally and was arrested by Detectives when he answered the door at his residence with the gun slung over his shoulder!

Doesn't look like this case is a big deal after all. This came from a member of SCOPE NY who attended the hearing:
___________________________________________
Subject: PATAKI LAW ARREST

Tim & Scott:
I attended County Court as promised.
This is NOT the case for us. It is an arrest for a Tec-9 pistol
without a license.
No warrant. The defendant was arrested after city detectives came to
his place to investigate a murder. He answered the door with the Tec-9 slung
over his shoulder. He was arrested. He has prior record for petty larceny,
strong arm robbery, probation violation. Seems a better candidate for a
Project Exile arrest! Sorry for the false alarm.
David Warshaw
Dutchess
___________________________________________

Oh well! But it is good to see people on the RKBA side ready to jump on this and provide assistance should the need arise.

The Pataki Law bears watching, NY State has been known to liberally interpret laws using the State equivalent of Executive Orders. In the future a democratic governor and his staff could use this law to really hurt us.

We are trying to compete with California as to who is the biggest bunch of commies.

Looks like the K80 man has egg on his face:(

Geoff Ross
 
Hey! No personal attacks against our members! Even if you are attacking yourself! ;)

Like you said, Geoff, "it is good to see people on the RKBA side ready to jump on this and provide assistance should the need arise." You have no reason to think you have egg on your face.

Thanks for the "Heads up." We'll be ready when you have a test case.
 
Second on the Thanx for the Heads Up. Like you said, only a matter of time till the law is "correctly interpreted" by some confiscationist Son of a Pig. Better to be too careful than to allow the state to strip us of our property rights.
 
Yes, the problem remains: as written, an awful lot of popular guns made after '94 are, strictly speaking, illegal under the Pataki law. The problem is that the receivers of AR-15s, AK-47s, AUGs, etc. are in and of themselves (regardless of attached parts) declared "assault weapons", possession of which is punishable as a violent felony.
 
Any idea just how many criminals the passage of that particular piece of legislative garbage created? I thought NY had it bad under Cuomo, sounds like today's Republicans are no better than the critters they replaced. I hadn't realized how bad things had gotten there. Sounds like Scope needs to take another trip to Albany (perhaps loaded and locked this time :()... Good luck with getting this one overturned.

Bri
 
To my unlawyerly mind the Sullivan Law of 1911 is already Unconstitional. According to that law a pistol permit holder cannot even touch, TOUCH!, the pistol of another licensed holder. Basically the state is appropriating private property. Not only that, but as posted here before...If you own a pistol in Texas, and move to NY then you need to apply to the county for a permit and permission to re-own your property after you move to NY. What a crock.

And my reading of that stupidly written "Pataki Law" is the same as Donath's. If you cannot prove you owned that particular SA firearm prior to 1994 then you are screwed. You are a felon and your property is liable to confiscation. What the heck kind of stupidity is that? One of the reasons the English and American revolutions were fought was about the issue of retro-active felony. I thought only totalitarian governments created classes of felons by legislation or executive fiat, guess again.

Honest to God, its not the gun rights issue that bugs me, its the property rights issue. GUN RIGHTS ARE PROPERTY RIGHTS! AS GUN RIGHTS ARE ABOLISHED, PROPERTY RIGHTS WILL FOLLOW LIKEWISE! WHEN PROPERTY RIGHTS ARE ABOLISHED, LIBERTY WILL BE EXTINGUISHED. Hellfire and Damnation on the womanly Republicans of NYS, that is not a difficult principle to understand and defend.
 
Yup, possession of a "part" must mean I have the equipment it goes to...

I wonder if that means I own a Chevy 350 small block somewhere....I have a spark plug that will fit one.....

Uh-oh! I just had a thought!

I have a .44 Magnum case laying around somewhere! Somebody owes me a revolver!
 
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