I have a choice between going to OCS or enlisting and having a gauranteed Ranger option right out of basic. I'm in a Navy and USMC town so I don't know much about the Army. What's the likelihood of going from OCS straight into Ranger's or SF? Posted a similiar question in Gtalk, but haven't got many responses.
Army Career
- Thread starter jetrecbn1
- Start date
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Not sure - but go OCS. Trust me.
OCS...
OCS...
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
Hitting the 75th RR or SF out of OCS will not happen. Neither outfit uses 2nd Lt.s. The 'zacts may have changed, but the program for the 75th is to be a platoon leader for a year or so somewhere else, (Korea was the hot ticket) then get recommended by your Battalion Commander for the Regiment. SF - you can volunteer for the Pre-Qualification course as a 1st Lt. Usually they run you through in-route to IOAC. If they decide they want you, they'll tag you in the next couple of years...
If you get branched Infantry, you'll be able to get jump school and Ranger school without much problem.
Giz
[This message has been edited by Gizmo99 (edited June 09, 2000).]
If you get branched Infantry, you'll be able to get jump school and Ranger school without much problem.
Giz
[This message has been edited by Gizmo99 (edited June 09, 2000).]
Derek Zeanah
New member
Interesting question.
I went in 11X with the guaranteed Airborne option. Decided not to go directly to OCS from basic training (8 month wait, then would lose my airborne slot), but volunteered for Ranger Btn in jump school.
Never made it to Ranger Btn (have shoulders that dislocate if pulled from just the right angle, which prevent me from doing pull-ups. Even when busting my a** in holdover and getting to the point where I could do 8x 200lb lat pulldowns and only weighed 171 lbs.
Only thing I ever failed at...) so I went overseas instead. Turned down another OCS slot after arriving in Germany(would have had to stay in longer), then decided not to take "green to gold" when I ETS'd.
My experience (8 years ago) is that if you've got some college under your belt and you tested well (98% for me) you can find an OCS slot without too much difficulty. The enlisted experience sure seems a *lot* different than the commissioned experience though.
It seemed like we learned to fight, and the officers learned how to lead (whether they learned well or not is a different question). I saw two officers while I was in that I admired: one was a major at 3d Ranger Btn, the other was a 1st Lt in the Armored Btn I got assigned to (2/67 AR). In both cases, the officers were enlisted first (in the latter case, was 11B E-6 who used to teach at SEAR school...)
Want to go straight into en elite unit? There'll be a ton of competition. Want to go to Ranger school? My understanding was that infantry officers are required to pass ranger school within a certain period of time. I disn't see many infantry officers (I was 11C, and was plagued by a series of armored officers.
) but I never met a ranger school grad I was uncomfortable following.
FWIW. On the Army experience? Glad I did it. Loved the job, hated the organization. I'll keep my gripes to myself though, for fear of offending someone here.
Watch out though -- we used to harrass the hell out of those OCS guys (line up 5m apart and each ask "excuse me, do you have the time?" Funny watching the candidates in their shiny hats stop from double-timing, go to attention, then parade rest, then answer the question, go to attention again, double-time...
ROTC is surely less hectic. Besides, that way you won't wake up the airborne class next-door with your 2AM PT.
I went in 11X with the guaranteed Airborne option. Decided not to go directly to OCS from basic training (8 month wait, then would lose my airborne slot), but volunteered for Ranger Btn in jump school.
Never made it to Ranger Btn (have shoulders that dislocate if pulled from just the right angle, which prevent me from doing pull-ups. Even when busting my a** in holdover and getting to the point where I could do 8x 200lb lat pulldowns and only weighed 171 lbs.
Only thing I ever failed at...) so I went overseas instead. Turned down another OCS slot after arriving in Germany(would have had to stay in longer), then decided not to take "green to gold" when I ETS'd.My experience (8 years ago) is that if you've got some college under your belt and you tested well (98% for me) you can find an OCS slot without too much difficulty. The enlisted experience sure seems a *lot* different than the commissioned experience though.
It seemed like we learned to fight, and the officers learned how to lead (whether they learned well or not is a different question). I saw two officers while I was in that I admired: one was a major at 3d Ranger Btn, the other was a 1st Lt in the Armored Btn I got assigned to (2/67 AR). In both cases, the officers were enlisted first (in the latter case, was 11B E-6 who used to teach at SEAR school...)
Want to go straight into en elite unit? There'll be a ton of competition. Want to go to Ranger school? My understanding was that infantry officers are required to pass ranger school within a certain period of time. I disn't see many infantry officers (I was 11C, and was plagued by a series of armored officers.
) but I never met a ranger school grad I was uncomfortable following.FWIW. On the Army experience? Glad I did it. Loved the job, hated the organization. I'll keep my gripes to myself though, for fear of offending someone here.
Watch out though -- we used to harrass the hell out of those OCS guys (line up 5m apart and each ask "excuse me, do you have the time?" Funny watching the candidates in their shiny hats stop from double-timing, go to attention, then parade rest, then answer the question, go to attention again, double-time...
ROTC is surely less hectic. Besides, that way you won't wake up the airborne class next-door with your 2AM PT.dezeana, I too scored a 98 with my highest score 135 in Combat Arms. I am about to get my degree in political bull ____ June 16(well if I don't mess up). Say I do take the Ranger option, what do you think the average wait will be before I can apply for OCS? Forgot to mention that if I do go the enlisted route, I will be an E4.
Derek Zeanah
New member
You might be looking in the wrong place -- I did my 2 yrs 17 wks and got back into college.
If I was going to do it again, I'd position myself to serve with the most capable people I could find. That means going to Ranger BTN. Those people are a very impressive group, and you'll be challenged. My understanding at the time was that E-5's from the Ranger Btns were expected to go to Ranger school Any Time Now, and the environment there required it if your troops were going to respect you.
If you're thinking about a career, I would think (someone with more experience please jump in) that going to one of the ranger btns, becoming an NCO, making it through Ranger school, then looking at OCS would make you the best sort of infantry leader.
At that point you'll have mastered the job from the position of an NCO in one of our more high-speed units -- you'll be competent to lead (no small thing, IMHO). If you decide that you don't find what you're looking for in "today's army," then at least you had a shot at Ranger school.
IMHO, and I have not "been there and done that" (though not for lack of trying. )
OCS slots were available every now and then -- more available than slots to Sniper school anyway
-- I'd say a couple of them opened up every 6 mos or so.
If I was going to do it again, I'd position myself to serve with the most capable people I could find. That means going to Ranger BTN. Those people are a very impressive group, and you'll be challenged. My understanding at the time was that E-5's from the Ranger Btns were expected to go to Ranger school Any Time Now, and the environment there required it if your troops were going to respect you.
If you're thinking about a career, I would think (someone with more experience please jump in) that going to one of the ranger btns, becoming an NCO, making it through Ranger school, then looking at OCS would make you the best sort of infantry leader.
At that point you'll have mastered the job from the position of an NCO in one of our more high-speed units -- you'll be competent to lead (no small thing, IMHO). If you decide that you don't find what you're looking for in "today's army," then at least you had a shot at Ranger school.
IMHO, and I have not "been there and done that" (though not for lack of trying.
)OCS slots were available every now and then -- more available than slots to Sniper school anyway
-- I'd say a couple of them opened up every 6 mos or so.jetrecbn1,
Are you wanting to make a career of the military or is this a short term thing? If you want to make it a career take the OCS route. However, I will warn you that in a long period of peace the military services reduce the numbers of personnel. In the officer corp the ones to be retained are those who hold a Regular Army commission. Many fine Reserve Officers (those who are on active duty, but don't have a Regular Army commission) are forced out or are reduced to an Enlisted grade. This doesn't mean they are in any manner inferior to the RA types, but that is the way the system is set up. A RA officer has tenure that the RO doesn't have and can remain on active duty until his tenure is up even if he does not get promoted. If you want to make the military a career I would get a commission. NCO's are the backbone of the service, but there will come a day when you will retire and there is a great deal of difference in the financial compensation - both on active duty and retiremnent. Best to you, Jerry
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Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
Are you wanting to make a career of the military or is this a short term thing? If you want to make it a career take the OCS route. However, I will warn you that in a long period of peace the military services reduce the numbers of personnel. In the officer corp the ones to be retained are those who hold a Regular Army commission. Many fine Reserve Officers (those who are on active duty, but don't have a Regular Army commission) are forced out or are reduced to an Enlisted grade. This doesn't mean they are in any manner inferior to the RA types, but that is the way the system is set up. A RA officer has tenure that the RO doesn't have and can remain on active duty until his tenure is up even if he does not get promoted. If you want to make the military a career I would get a commission. NCO's are the backbone of the service, but there will come a day when you will retire and there is a great deal of difference in the financial compensation - both on active duty and retiremnent. Best to you, Jerry
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Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
paratrooper
New member
Jerry got it right . There is a pecking order in the Officer ranks . The highest form of life is a West Point grad . When officers speak of filling a good slot that little "class of xx " makes quite a statement . It says " He's one of us ." If you are an Academy grad in wartime you are on the fast track to the top .
Next would be R.O.T.C. . You have a good education BUT are still a reserve officer . In my time you could not go above Capt. on active duty . You had to get that much coveted Regular Army Commision . West Pointers have it from the Gitgo .
Last ( and I mean last ) is the OCS officer . You are also reserve officer status and must achieve RA status to succeed . For OCS this is harder since the requirements you met were lower than the others . You MUST go ABN and you MUST go Ranger AND other schooling to get the RA commission . When I was on active duty in the mid 60's ALL OCS grads went ABN and Ranger right out of OCS . It was the Gung Ho thing to do and since Nam was escalating they would be finding work very soon .
I would think that the LT. bars would be a good first priority . You can go ABN and Ranger if you are INF and look eager . To be a bit blunt here if you get busted up in your quest for Wings and Ranger tab ( It's happened ) you are more employable as a Retired Officer than an ex-paratrooper with a limp . There's just something about the commission that looks good on a resume .
On the other hand , if you don't want a career the commission will still be a door opener back in the civilian world .
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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA
Next would be R.O.T.C. . You have a good education BUT are still a reserve officer . In my time you could not go above Capt. on active duty . You had to get that much coveted Regular Army Commision . West Pointers have it from the Gitgo .
Last ( and I mean last ) is the OCS officer . You are also reserve officer status and must achieve RA status to succeed . For OCS this is harder since the requirements you met were lower than the others . You MUST go ABN and you MUST go Ranger AND other schooling to get the RA commission . When I was on active duty in the mid 60's ALL OCS grads went ABN and Ranger right out of OCS . It was the Gung Ho thing to do and since Nam was escalating they would be finding work very soon .
I would think that the LT. bars would be a good first priority . You can go ABN and Ranger if you are INF and look eager . To be a bit blunt here if you get busted up in your quest for Wings and Ranger tab ( It's happened ) you are more employable as a Retired Officer than an ex-paratrooper with a limp . There's just something about the commission that looks good on a resume .
On the other hand , if you don't want a career the commission will still be a door opener back in the civilian world .
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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA
What would be the most likely rank I end up with if I do 20 years. I already know it will NEVER be that high. High ranking officers usually have RINGS(mil college). Do you guys know on average what rank I would be retiring with. If it's low I might lean towards going the NCO route first to get the field experience so as not to give men stupid commands. Appreciate everybody's comments.
While it is true that OCS grads are looked down on by the West Pointers, many have reached high rank and have had distinguished careers. I had a division commander who graduated from OCS and knew of several BG's.
As a career Officer is better than enlisted. When you graduate from OCS your first assignment will probably be as a Plt leader. This is the most difficult job you will ever have and how well you do will determine how far you go. You either have the ability or you don't. If you find that you are not suited towards a career then when you enter the civilian job market you resume will be far more impressive with the "Military Service--Officer Infantry" on it. My military service is more valuable to me as a civilian than I could have imagined, it opens doors and tags you as someone who has been a leader.
My recommendation, go to OCS, get the other schools later, after your first assignment as a Plt Ldr.
Geoff Ross (50th company Ft Benning class 10-71)
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One reason to vote in the next Presidential election.
It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!
As a career Officer is better than enlisted. When you graduate from OCS your first assignment will probably be as a Plt leader. This is the most difficult job you will ever have and how well you do will determine how far you go. You either have the ability or you don't. If you find that you are not suited towards a career then when you enter the civilian job market you resume will be far more impressive with the "Military Service--Officer Infantry" on it. My military service is more valuable to me as a civilian than I could have imagined, it opens doors and tags you as someone who has been a leader.
My recommendation, go to OCS, get the other schools later, after your first assignment as a Plt Ldr.
Geoff Ross (50th company Ft Benning class 10-71)
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One reason to vote in the next Presidential election.
It's the Supreme Court, Stupid!
Mel Hoskin
New member
For what its worth, I recommend that you go the officer route. My military experience was 30 yrs USMC (enlisted). There is a lot of good data being provided you that you will have to evaluate using your own yard stick.
I had a hell of a time convinceing my son not to enlist in the Corps back in the early 80's when he got out of high school. Almost had to tie him up and tote him to one of the institutions of higher learning.<G> It ended up that after I showed him a current pay scale and pointed out the difference in what a 2Lt got paid and what rank he would have to be as an enlisted man to equal it,was my winning point.
He went to a small school here in Virginia, Joined the ROTC, ended up a military honors grad. and was given a Reg commission. This was in 86, he is now a Maj that just completed the CGSC course at Ft. Leavenworth. He will now admit that going on to school and getting a commission was the right thing to do.
My recommendation is go for the commission.
Mel <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K80Geoff:
While it is true that OCS grads are looked down on by the West Pointers, many have reached high rank and have had distinguished careers. I had a division commander who graduated from OCS and knew of several BG's.
As a career Officer is better than enlisted. When you graduate from OCS your first assignment will probably be as a Plt leader. This is the most difficult job you will ever have and how well you do will determine how far you go. You either have the ability or you don't. If you find that you are not suited towards a career then when you enter the civilian job market you resume will be far more impressive with the "Military Service--Officer Infantry" on it. My military service is more valuable to me as a civilian than I could have imagined, it opens doors and tags you as someone who has been a leader.
My recommendation, go to OCS, get the other schools later, after your first assignment as a Plt Ldr.
Geoff Ross (50th company Ft Benning class 10-71)
[/quote]
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I had a hell of a time convinceing my son not to enlist in the Corps back in the early 80's when he got out of high school. Almost had to tie him up and tote him to one of the institutions of higher learning.<G> It ended up that after I showed him a current pay scale and pointed out the difference in what a 2Lt got paid and what rank he would have to be as an enlisted man to equal it,was my winning point.
He went to a small school here in Virginia, Joined the ROTC, ended up a military honors grad. and was given a Reg commission. This was in 86, he is now a Maj that just completed the CGSC course at Ft. Leavenworth. He will now admit that going on to school and getting a commission was the right thing to do.
My recommendation is go for the commission.
Mel <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K80Geoff:
While it is true that OCS grads are looked down on by the West Pointers, many have reached high rank and have had distinguished careers. I had a division commander who graduated from OCS and knew of several BG's.
As a career Officer is better than enlisted. When you graduate from OCS your first assignment will probably be as a Plt leader. This is the most difficult job you will ever have and how well you do will determine how far you go. You either have the ability or you don't. If you find that you are not suited towards a career then when you enter the civilian job market you resume will be far more impressive with the "Military Service--Officer Infantry" on it. My military service is more valuable to me as a civilian than I could have imagined, it opens doors and tags you as someone who has been a leader.
My recommendation, go to OCS, get the other schools later, after your first assignment as a Plt Ldr.
Geoff Ross (50th company Ft Benning class 10-71)
[/quote]
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jetrecbn1,
I would guess that if you have a degree you could make Lt Col in less than 20 years. Although it is true that the military academy graduates have the inside track, I know of a fair number of ROTC officers that made Col and one or two stars. The important thing is to decide what you want to make and learn what the tickets are that you have to get punched to get there. If you want to stay beyond 20 and make Col or above it is a great advantage to get a masters degree. The service will help you do that. Then get Command and General Staff College, at least by correspondence. High level staff assignments are also a requirement (read Wash DC - Pentagon). Command assignments are the third tickets. Many don't want to stay that long and make the sacrifices to accomplish these higher grades. Nothing at all wrong with that. People want different things out of life and a military career requires some family sacrifices. Most officers do not desire to make stars and to make the family and personal sacrifices. Consider whether or not you really want to make a career of the service in light of the current trends and especially if you have to put up with the Clinton and Gore types. You can't believe all the promises that the govt makes either. They can change the rules in mid stream and you may be in too deep to go back. I wouldn't choose that career today. Regards, Jerry
[This message has been edited by JerryM (edited June 10, 2000).]
I would guess that if you have a degree you could make Lt Col in less than 20 years. Although it is true that the military academy graduates have the inside track, I know of a fair number of ROTC officers that made Col and one or two stars. The important thing is to decide what you want to make and learn what the tickets are that you have to get punched to get there. If you want to stay beyond 20 and make Col or above it is a great advantage to get a masters degree. The service will help you do that. Then get Command and General Staff College, at least by correspondence. High level staff assignments are also a requirement (read Wash DC - Pentagon). Command assignments are the third tickets. Many don't want to stay that long and make the sacrifices to accomplish these higher grades. Nothing at all wrong with that. People want different things out of life and a military career requires some family sacrifices. Most officers do not desire to make stars and to make the family and personal sacrifices. Consider whether or not you really want to make a career of the service in light of the current trends and especially if you have to put up with the Clinton and Gore types. You can't believe all the promises that the govt makes either. They can change the rules in mid stream and you may be in too deep to go back. I wouldn't choose that career today. Regards, Jerry
[This message has been edited by JerryM (edited June 10, 2000).]
Lots of good input here. Enlisted with bad knees and back etc less employable than officer. Officer from the git go real good shot at makin O5 or O6 in twenty. Mustang is a gamble, a busted body can keep you out of OCS. Mustang likely to top out at O3 or O4 in twenty.
Two exceptions I know. One bein uncle who went all E grades in Air Corps/Force and stayed 36, retired with one star. Other bein head Seal who just retired with star, he did the E pay grades too.
Took me nine pay grades to make O3
Whatever you do, thanks for wanting to serve.
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Sam I am, grn egs n packin
Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
Two exceptions I know. One bein uncle who went all E grades in Air Corps/Force and stayed 36, retired with one star. Other bein head Seal who just retired with star, he did the E pay grades too.
Took me nine pay grades to make O3
Whatever you do, thanks for wanting to serve.
------------------
Sam I am, grn egs n packin
Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
ohen cepel
New member
You can't go from OCS to SF. They are currently only taking 1LT(P) and CPT's.
You may be able to go into a ranger unit but be careful not to bite off too much. A mistake there will be your end. Get some time on the ground first.
If you go infantry you will have no problem going ranger/airborne.
They no longer do the regular army (RA) assignment until you make field grade (major) so I don't expect the OCS commission will hurt you at all. If you don't tell them they won't know.
I would encourage you to spend some time in the army before going OCS. Some of the best people I have worked with were prior NCO's. However, several of the worse were prior enlisted guys who never made SGT. Their idea of leadership consisted of nothing more than yelling and intimidation which is all they ever saw of the army when they were enlisted.
OCS is supposed to be puttting out 5 times the number of graduates this year than in the past. So getting to go shouldn't be too tough.
However, understand that they are increasing the output to fill the officer slots that they can't keep in.
Finally, my advice is enlist for the SHORTEST time possible! This let's you change course after 2-3 years or get out if you hate it.
It's not good to be at the decade mark and be stuck.
Good luck with it.
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He who dares wins.
NRA Life Memeber
You may be able to go into a ranger unit but be careful not to bite off too much. A mistake there will be your end. Get some time on the ground first.
If you go infantry you will have no problem going ranger/airborne.
They no longer do the regular army (RA) assignment until you make field grade (major) so I don't expect the OCS commission will hurt you at all. If you don't tell them they won't know.
I would encourage you to spend some time in the army before going OCS. Some of the best people I have worked with were prior NCO's. However, several of the worse were prior enlisted guys who never made SGT. Their idea of leadership consisted of nothing more than yelling and intimidation which is all they ever saw of the army when they were enlisted.
OCS is supposed to be puttting out 5 times the number of graduates this year than in the past. So getting to go shouldn't be too tough.
However, understand that they are increasing the output to fill the officer slots that they can't keep in.
Finally, my advice is enlist for the SHORTEST time possible! This let's you change course after 2-3 years or get out if you hate it.
It's not good to be at the decade mark and be stuck.
Good luck with it.
------------------
He who dares wins.
NRA Life Memeber
I would be the third generation in my family to serve. I would also be the first to have a chance to become an officer. Most of the people around me were enlisted personel and they too recomend going to OCS. I appreciate everyone's comments for they have been enciteful. I was thinking on the lines that if I were most likelyy going to be at 02 for the duration of my career, I should try the enlisted side. After thinking more about the situation I feel it's in my best interest to join the officer ranks(first baby on the way). Have to pass the selection board first. In the case I do make it, hope I don't turn out to be the officers that my father and my neighbors told me about. I will try to be fair and refrain from putting my career above those that trust me. Hopefully I remember this when I'm serving. Thanks again guys.
Allen_Raiford
New member
If you are just lookin' to get your "yayas" out, go Ranger.
If you want a career, go OCS.
Allen Raiford
fmr Pathfinder Sgt.
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"Pathfinders Light the Way!"
If you want a career, go OCS.
Allen Raiford
fmr Pathfinder Sgt.
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"Pathfinders Light the Way!"
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
Jet, the hot tickets (assignments/degrees/branches) for promotion change every few years. Do not get wrapped around the axle about that stuff at this time. Get to OCS, hopefully go Infantry or at least Combat Arms and work hard. Get Ranger school out of your basic course (regardless of your branch) - that's the one school that many people would have liked to done after their civilians again. As far as high rank, the source of your comission means nothing. Colin Powell was a ROTC grad. Ohen has it right.
Giz
Giz