Armor Piercing

C

Calcitanium

New member
How does rifle or MG armor piercing ammunition work, or at least, what is the basic design(s)?

I heard today that a typical armor piercing round (at least during WW2?) would have been a lead round with a steel core. So that sounds like there would be no detrimental effect to the barrel.

All I own is a "puny" .308, but I recently watched an interesting video about .50 BMG, using armor piercing:

28k
http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/50cal28k.rm
56k
http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/50cal56k.rm
T1
http://www.biggerhammer.net/barrett/50calt1.rm

By the way, I'm under the impression that the above video was made at the request of anti-gunner U.S. Rep. Henry Waxman
http://www.lewrockwell.com/elkins/elkins10.html

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Disclaimer for posting an AP thread:

"For what it's worth, I'm really not interested in trying to use this information for "evil" purposes, or whatever. I don't own reloading equipment, I'm a beginner at rifle shooting. I'm a law-abiding citizen."

Really.
 
Well, if you're talking about soft body armor, just about any full power rifle cartridge (ie 7.62 NATO) will pierce with little trouble. That's with a typical FMJ bullet.

The newer US military 5.56x45 ammo has a small tungsten carbide penetrator that helps it defeat soft body armor at longer ranges. Blackhawk Down made this out to be something of a mixed blessing since it wouldn't do as much damage as a conventional bullet at closer ranges, against virtually naked people (t-shirt or likewise).

With large projectiles you can do everthing you can do with the smaller versions, and then some. 20mm cannon rounds have everything from penetrators to explosive projectiles. That's not to mention, a 20mm chunk of plain jane FMJ has to weigh something like 900+ grains and that alone, at 2000fps, would be enough to defeat all but tank armor.

I used 20mm as an example, because I'd hate my comments to be used for anti-50bmg propaganda.
 
Most true rifle-caliber armor-piercing ammunition has a hardened steel core, surrounded by (usually) a lead point-filler or skirt, and then by a gilding-metal jacket. On impact, the point filler and jacket cushion and stabilize the core while it's penetrating the target, and (depending on how hard the material being penetrated is) strips off as the core goes through. The sectioned round furthest to the right in the below picture is a .30-06 Springfield M2 Armor-Piercing round, standard-issue through WW2 and Korea.
View
 
AP for .308 is pretty much all dried up, isn't it?
Homeloaders are the only ones I know that have any, from pulled bullets...
 
A. Rex. I think it is a federal offense to load .308/7.62 NATO ammo with AP bullets. Strange. it's OK with 30-036, but not .308. Your government at work.
Paul B.
 
"strange"
Doesn't it have to do with whether or not there are handguns that can shoot that caliber? If so, it's illegal to have an AP round in that caliber.
I guess we have to thank TC's handguns for that.
 
Isn't there a lone eagle pistol in 30-06? besides it is a moot point. ball ammo will go thru MOST body armor, and any vehicle that could stop ball (LAV's) are now rated to stop at least 30 cal AP rounds. While i'm not a fan of Big Brother having anything i'm not allowed, in this case it doesn't matter. Nice picture SDC, let me take a stab at the line up from left, 9mm para,9mm para, 45acp,ss190(one from the P-90 sub gun aluminum rear core steel front core),
5.45x39, original U.S. ball 5.56x45, ss109 5.56x45, i have no clue on the fleshette round, .303 brit AP and the aformentioned '06 how did i do?

"The newer US military 5.56x45 ammo has a small tungsten carbide penetrator that helps it defeat soft body armor at longer ranges."Quote

If you are refering to ss109, I might be wrong, but isn't the core simply steel( it's definately ferrous, magnet test) used because it is lighter than lead to make the bullet 'tail heavy' and unstable in a water based enviornment(flesh), basically a copy of the russian Hollow nose fmj(fifth from the left in the picture) 5.45x39 which is in itself a copy of the .303 brittish Mk VII round?
 
Yep, you got them all except that the .303 round is an ordinary Mk VII ball round, not AP. (The flechette round is a XM645 5.6x57mm SPIW cartridge.)
All of the SS109-based 5.56mm rounds have a lighter, harder steel penetrator in the nose, ahead of a lead base core; this gives them a "semi-AP" capability, but it also makes them try to "swap ends" when they hit flesh; because most military .223 is still manufactured with a gilding-metal jacket, this means that(more often than not), the bullet ends up breaking into two pieces at the cannelure when it turns sideways. The .303 Mk VII ball tries to do the same thing, because the base is heavier than the nose; the base ends up trying to pass the nose, so the bullet ends up travelling backwards through a body. However, most bodies aren't thick enough to show the true effect of this, so a lot of the potential target effect is "wasted".
The 5.45mm Soviet round uses a similar trick to ensure that the bullet tries to turn end over end, but because they use a steel-jacketed bullet, it normally doesn't come apart in the same way that the 5.56 does; on impact, a little lead plug in the nose shifts or "slumps" forward onto one side, which unblalances the bullet, and increases the bullet's natural yaw until it swaps ends.
 
Lots of good info on AP rounds, everything being said is accurate. However, AP rounds for the .308 (7.62x51) can be found at gun shows. Anyone with a FFL CANNOT sell it. If you are not a FFL holder, you can sell it. BTW, what you want to look for is M61 ammunition, the military designation for 7.62x51 AP rounds. If you want to spend too much money, you can also buy the combination AP/incendiary round (I don't know its designation). I passed on this ammo at the last gun show; too expensive for ammo that would just sit on the shelf or be used for plinking.
 
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