Arming America - Blowing away the pro 2ed argument

jrhines

New member
Has anyone seen or read the book "Arming America, The Origion of a National Gun Culture", by Michael Bellesiks? Browsing the book store today & there it was, purporting to completly destroy the pro-gun pro-2ed amendment arguments. The price was $35, I'll be dammed if I'll contribute to this guys sales. But, I would like to know what his argument is based on. From the dust jacket it was that the Industrial Puppetmasters convinced us that we all needed guns after the Civil War & WWI. Prior to then, few folks had 'em or wanted them. The guys is a history prof out of some big eastern school...God know what he's smoking. We need to get a small number of these books circulating for them that wants to read the latest enemy doctrine. Of course, I could be way behind the times & this is old news, but I searched the forum & didn't find any mention...
What say you????
 
Go back to the book store and "redistribute" the copies of the book behind some obscure titles where they won't be sold. It will hurt his sales and discourage more books of this type from being marketed...particularly if we ALL do it.
 
JRHines: Go to your local library, and request it by inter-library loan if they don't have it locally; You can get ahold of just about any book printed without giving money to the author by this means, though it can take a while.

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Sic semper tyrannis!
 
It doesn't have anything to do with the Second Amendment. All the book claims is that firearms ownership and use was extremely rare until the post-Civil War period.

It makes this claim based on probate records (wills disposing of personal property). He claims that firearms were prohibitively expensive and he claims that firearms are rarely mentioned in these wills.

The two problems with this are

A)If firearms are expensive, what did lawyers cost? Does he really believe the vast majority of the population (especially in rural areas where gun ownership would be higher) was using lawyers in the 1776-1860 period?

B) Firearms can still be disposed of in a will without being mentioned (i.e. I leave the residue and remainder of my property to...)

The anti-rights people want to push this as proof that traditional ownership of firearms in this country is just a big lie and therefore there is no reason not to dramatically change that tradition.
 
The guy's last name is Bellesiles. Google turned up a few things on him. He is not just misguided, he is definitely not on our side. Mixed up in "violence" studies, etc. Check out his tirade against Sam Colt.

EMORY REPORT

Emory Report November 3, 1997
Volume 50, No. 11

Bellesiles lays blame for U.S. gun culture at the feet of Samuel Colt
In the second of this year's Great Teachers Lecture Series, history's Michael Bellesiles explained how the gun culture that exists in the United States was spawned in the 19th century by the self-promotion and salesmanship of Samuel Colt.

Speaking Oct. 7 in Cannon Chapel, Bellesiles, an assoicate professor, said Colt may have been the first of that "great American archetype" of master showman and salesman. "Like P.T. Barnum, Colt manipulated public sensibilities and invented a number of sales techniques still in use. But Colt is far more significant than Barnum-Barnum just entertained America. Colt transformed its popular culture."

The idea for the revolver came to Colt when he was just a 16-year-old apprentice seaman in 1831, Bellesiles said. To secure capital for producing the guns, Colt went into showmanship, billing himself as "Dr. Coult of London, New York and Calcutta" and holding entertaining demonstrations of "Dr. Coult's gas": nitrous oxide. Patrons paid 25 cents and watched fellow audience members make fools of themselves under the influence of the gas.

Though he squandered much of the money he made, Colt learned two things from his laughing gas shows: the extent of human gullibility and how to work with the press. He persuaded his family to help him fund the Patent Arms Manufacturing Co. in Paterson, N.J., in 1836. Over the years, Colt bribed, cajoled, lied and exaggerated to federal and state officials to get them to order his guns. Not until later did he begin to capitalize on private ownership.

"Contrary to the popular image, few people in the United States owned guns prior to the 1850s," Bellesiles said. "Probate and militia records make clear that only between a tenth and a quarter of adult white males owned firearms. Massachusetts counted all privately owned guns; at no point prior to 1840 did more than 11 percent of that state's citizens own firearms, and Massachusetts was, along with Connecticut, the center of U.S. arms production."

But Colt managed to create the perception of a need for guns in the minds of urban males. His task of selling firearms to settlers was far easier; Colt had to convince city folk they needed guns for protection even though crime rates were so low that no police force in the country-other than slave patrols in the South-carried anything more deadly than a billy club.

"The public seemed indifferent, when not actively hostile, to gun ownership," Bellesiles said. "Even hunting was held up to ridicule, and it was mocked as the play of insufficiently grown-up boys. Those who prized hunting followed the British lead in seeing it as a gentleman's sport, one which should remain free from the taint of the lower orders."

But Colt changed all that, masterfully using the press to play off people's fears, just as he did on larger scales with governments. Colt went to Russia in 1852 and told the czar that the sultan of Turkey had just purchased 5,000 pistols. After the czar scrambled to likewise arm his troops with 5,000 revolvers, Colt then went to Constantinople to tell the sultan that the czar of Russia had just bought 5,000 pistols. Colt created a mini-arms race and made 10,000 sales.

Colt made other household items in his factory, all stamped with his name to keep it in the public's consciousness. When critics questioned the safety of his revolvers, Colt offered a reward to anyone who could document a single case of deadly misfire; reports of this offer simply gave Colt more free publicity.

"When questioned about the ethics of such an approach to sales, Colt responded that the surest guarantee of social peace was for everyone to carry a Colt revolver," Bellesiles said. "That aphorism, that an armed society was a peaceful society, was Colt's favorite even though it turned on its head over 200 years of Western legal tradition.

"Rather than relying on the state for personal protection, the individual must protect himself-it was a view which accepted the atomistic nature of society and could conceive of no communal strategy for collective security. It is a view which carries a price still," said Bellesiles.

-Michael Terrazas
-- 30 --

This report is repeated in Appendix J Potomac Institute, amicus curiae
US v. Emerson, Fifth Circuit, Case No. 99-10331.
http://www.potomac-inc.org/emerappj.html

Based on the quality of the above sample, I wouldn't bother reading the book for enlightenment, but rather to select points to refute when some airhead mentions this "study".

On second thought, don’t even bother - Bartholomew Roberts has it pegged.





[This message has been edited by Oatka (edited September 08, 2000).]
 
I really enjoy those who claim that America didn't have a single privately owned weapon prior to the industrial revolution. I realize that most colleges don't require reading of the founder's writings, but if you read "Common Sense" by Thomas Paine you will find that along with his praising the ammounts of timber and hemp (used for building a Navy), found in the Colonies, there is a curious phrase about "We now have the largest body of armed men under heaven". Strange huh?
Of course the lefties will tell you that since you can't find guns in probates and wills, then they didn't exist. What?
I would have thought that since blindness and old age went hand-in-hand back in those days (a lack of opthamologist I suppose), A blind old man would probably give his guns to his children prior to death, making unnecessary the addition of guns in a will. I'll take Thomas Paines account of how things really were back then (since he was "back then"), over a modern day "scholar".
 
Thanks guys, I knew you would come through... I'll bet this turkey will be on the talk shows as an expert on American culture. My own take is that if firearms were not an issue, why did the FF put it in the Bill of Rights? As for interpretation, I'm am not a constitutional scholar, but English is my native tongue! "The right of THE PEOPLE" means ME!
This sounds like a book I'll have to pick up and annotate, just for my own personel reference.
Again, thanks for the insight...
 
Ummmmmm, what does this guy think people hunted with before the industrial revolution? Somehow I don't see the pilgrims tip-toeing through the forest with a string noose singing," Here turkey, turkey, turkey!"

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Those who use arms well cultivate the Way and keep the rules.Thus they can govern in such a way as to prevail over the corrupt- Sun Tzu, The Art of War
 
An elitist studying only the elite. Only people who use lawyers to write wills matter in his world, and only high-class, well-bred "sportsmen" out after the fox count as hunters. The fact that when he mentions hunters, he's only talking about sport hunters and not the huge majority of hunters then and now who mostly hunt for the pot should tell you that he doesn't have a clue.
 
If your library can't get this book, try
USEDBOOKS

I used Nevada for shipping destination, so your charges may vary. You can probably email the vendor to get the exact price for your area.

The book ranges from $14.99 + $3(USPS) to list price of $30. (Decisions, decisions :) )
 
A few points. A "study" claiming to use probate records to measure gun ownership in the 18th century must first offer a proof that the method of measurement is valid. None was offered other than saying, "even bent silver spoons" were mentioned in probate documents. Tell ya what, my kids and grandkids will be getting my guns and money long before I croak.

Next the author says that since firearms ownership was so uncommmon it couldn't be considered a right. However, printing presses were much more expensive and rarer then. I doubt that he would argue that the ownership of a printing press, photocopier, fax, or computer is not protected by the 1st amendment because they could not have been foreseen by the Framers.

As well, if the high cost of owning hand-made firearms was prohibitive in more families owning guns, then clearly the Eli Whitney process of interchangeable parts manufacture and mass-production by Samuel Colt brought the firearm to more people...clearly more democratic, no?

The author also mentions that the Civil War was a historical marker in the ownership of firearms. The United States government allowed, nay, encouraged soldiers to keep their firearms after the war. They even allowed Confederate soldiers to do the same.

So much for the US government no recognizing an individual RKBA.

Rick

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"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birth-right of an American." Tench Coxe 2/20/1788
 
um this guys says hunting was "ridiculed" maybe in NYC.. but not in the appalaichas where people still hunted for food.

My family still has the "one" riflethat has been in our posession since 1820 or so.. a 25 caliber kentucky squirrel rifle made by a blacksmith with an imprted flintlock converted to percussion fire sometime post 1850. SO What??

Wills were deemed necessary to convey PROPERTY (ie LAND) rights and therefore VOTING rights. For a LONG time you could not vote unless you owned land (british common law) hence the need to know WHO owned land. (and who pays taxes) luckily in america the practice ceased.

I don't DOUBT the state of Mass. kept an accounting of how many brown bess muskets it had on hand in 1820.. we had just fought the brits a SECOND time in 1812. America HAD NO Standing army. "militias" regularly fought our wars.. up until WW1 where "state militias" sent troop to AID the federal troops already abroad.

This guy is using facts out of context and partial truths to his own agenda.

It IS true that post civil war a HUGE number of soldiers went home with a gun. (funny how that's not reflected in the westerns) But this guy needs to re-read his federalist papers re: gun rights.

and on Sam Colt and PT Barnum.. so? Was Joe Kennedy NOT a bootlegger? Was Martin Luther more than just a "rabble rouser?" were any of our founding fathers more tha a bunch of rich masons with wierd ideas?? Revolutionary ideas are OFTEN met with skepticism. Yau HAVE to make the salkes pitch to get peoiple to change thier minds.

Colt was a pioneer of american industry. In fact the "modern" firearm is a result, if not a catalyst of the industrial revolution good or bad.. it simply IS.



[This message has been edited by Dr.Rob (edited September 08, 2000).]
 
This has indeed been covered before, and his arguments are pretty absurd.

In addition to the notes above, I sincerely doubt many people would have put firarms in their wills (or would they be mentioned in the probate process) for the same reason we avoid it these days ... distrust of government snoops.

Firearms are obviously very portable, personal property. There is no need to mention them in the legal process. If they're not gifted before death, then they go to the heirs, quietly, after the funeral.

I can easily understand why this man wouldn't accept that logic. I'm sure he also believes that passing more gun laws will magically eliminate criminal violence. He lives in an ivory tower, and rarely sees the light of day ...

Regards from AZ
 
In those days a firearm was as much a part of a home as a pot or stove in the kitchen. If you owned a farm you had a firearm, if you lived anywhere but in the cities you had a firearm in the house. A firearm was a tool, one of many tools found in pre civil war homes.

Why would they be listed in wills, did the will list every single tool found in the home?

This book is based on junk science.


Geoff Ross
 
Lest we forget, estate taxes are as unpopular today as they were back in the 1860s. Realistically, most folks would just pass their firearms by word of mouth rather than allow it to pass by testamentary instrument. It was easier, simplier and cheaper for both the testator and his/her heir.

Second, if the assertion that most folks didn't know how to use a gun prior to the Civil War (pronounced as "Wah-oh" in Southern dialect), then why do historians attribute the fighting qualities of Johnny Reb (compared to Billy Yank) to Johnny growing up on farms and hunting all their lives whereas Billy Yank came from the industrial or developed areas like New York, Baltimore, Philadelphia & weren't familar with guns and had to be trained. (Not all Yankees were unskilled and many Westerners (Illinois, Indiana, Missouri, Ohio, Michigan) were equally enthusiastic hunters like the Southerners.

While there is truth that the major manufacturers did not enter the market for civilian firearms, the industrial revolution was still young and the gun needs of the nation was still served by the small town gunsmiths. Large manufacturers catered to the military and foreign governments. Folks weren't used to mass produced items yet and hand crafted meant something to people.

Only when new technology took over (rimfire cartridges) did the small gunsmith become displaced as a "gun manufacturer" and was forced to take a secondary role as a service outlet.
 
I think this guy must have just fallen off the turnip truck- Ivory tower indeed!

People like hin really "get my goat," when they go on and on w/ their quacko elitist ideas, presenting them as facts.



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"Pray as if your life depends on God, Prepare as if it all depends on you..." -Texas Preacher

Liberty or death, what we so proudly hail... DON'T TREAD ON ME!!-Metallica

"Many's the men who've battled foe
many the number slain,
many the lads have fallen though
Scotland shall rise again."
 
As has been touched on this guy "convienently" over looked Colt's contribution to the industrial revolution. He pioneered the interchangablity of parts and the assembly line process. Ironic that during dcoumentaries about the assembly line process that Henry Ford recieves all the credit and Colt is never mentioned.
Colt was not the only American inventor/inovator whose stock in trade was firearms devolpement whose ideas and inovations contributed to the country as we know it today. Had it not been for many of them we would not be the leader that we are in several fields and trying to play catch up like so many European nations.

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Gunslinger

I was promised a Shortycicle and I want a Shortycicle!
 
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