Armed Pizza Delivery Boys?

B

Barr

New member
Here is a question that can be debated on this forum that does not seem to have a whole lot of controversy.

Pizza Hut fired an employee that delivered pizzas a few years ago Pizza man saved by gun, but fired for packin' heat because he was armed while working.

Assuming the delivery person had the appropriate concealed carry permit, I can see two issues that can be discussed:

The first is if the Pizza Employee left the firearm in the car (i.e. similar to the suit the NRA is involved in with Weyerhauser) and it was in the glove box of the vehicle.

The second situation would be if the deliveryman kept the firearm on his person at all times except for the pizza store.

My response to the first situation is that the car is private property and the company has zero say in what goes in or out of his car as long as it does not interfer with company business.

My response to the second situation is that as long as the weapon is concealed the company should have no say yet again.

Any thoughts?
 
As long as the delivery person is on the payroll he is required to abide by the rules. While he is on the payroll, the company accepts responsibility and liability for his actions. If the company specifies that there is to be no drug usage, that applies even in his car off company property. Same with guns. I'm sure he expects the company to abide by the rules as applied to him, such as hourly wage, mileage expenses, etc.; so should he abide by the rules. If he can't, then he should find work elsewhere.
 
I agree totally

Again, we are talking about rights that are often trampled in the name of political correctness. Very few companies will "allow" employees to exercise their right to defense, even when not otherwise outlawed and their life is in imminent danger. I think it is so sad that there are laws preventing all kinds of discriminatory practices in the workplace like diciplining people with communicable diseases like AIDS, or who are retarded or who are in some other "disadvantaged" group, but they don't protect the worker's most fundamental right. Your boss cannot require you to give up most other liberties, but for some reason they think they can screw you out of your right to life.

I never bow to their pressure/PC rules unless the prohibition is otherwise codified in law. Just keep it concealed, and if you have to use it, be thankful you still have your life. In my mind, a job is a means to cash, however, no amount of cash is worth dying for or giving up my freedom. So I say F..K them and do what you need to do. And remember, it is better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

Shooter429
 
Don

If the company tells you that they expect you to chop off your arm because it is a liability are you going to do it? What if they tell you that you have to handle bloodied sharps without protection to save a few cents on PPE? What if they tell you to speed and run stop signs to make that delivery faster? What if they tell you you have to bend over and give it up or be fired? What if they send you in to clean up asbestos with nothing but a shop vac?



The companies do not care about anything but the bottom line. If they could make you work for nothing they would. If they could make you pay them for the opportunity to work there, they would. If they could cut out every employee right in existence they would. If everybody rolls over and allows themselves to be screwed without lube, no less, it will continue to happen. That is the reality of the corporate world. The dollar is the only thing that matters to them. People are their means to that almighty dollar so they will screw them any way possible if it makes them more money. I say a man has got to stand for something. I do. And I never worry about the cost.


Shooter429
 
Don't like the policy? Don't work there.
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No matter what the job is, someone will need the money bad enough to do it.

I hope nobody here subscribes to the opinion that people with no or little money are somehow inferior and therefore dont deserve the right to defend themselves the way a person who works for "Globotech Industries" or some other high paying corporate empire does. The NRA is fighting to allow guns in the corporate workplace, why should the same philosophy not apply to someone working in food service, or delivery, where they are driving into unfamiliar neigborhoods at late hours of the night.
 
I'm more of the opinion that if a company is paying you to do a certain job, they have every right to tell you how to do it and what not to do while you're on the clock. Your recourse is to not work there. Doesn't matter if it's fast food or a corporate office or whatever else.

Now, just to be fair I don't carry a gun with me. Besides the fact that I can't do it legaly here unless it's in a case and unloaded(making it fairly useless for self-defence), I don't need one. I don't live in a high crime area though and I'll probably never even have to think about defending myself.

But, if I was going into a dangerous area I'd carry law or no law. If I was delivering pizza in a dangerous area I'd be carrying then policy or no policy.
 
Having worked both sides of the fence, let me say this...

Dear Company,

Protect me while I'm on the clock or I will do what it takes to protect myself.

If I'm on a company site all day and you're providing security measures, CCTV, Security Staff, coded door locks, etc., then fine.

But if you're sending me out into the streets to interact with the general public, you can screw off, because I will be protected, even if its not by you.

Stew
 
shooter429 ,

The examples you give are specious.

Here's one for you: If you work for Joe's Pizza and show up for work wearing a Tee-shirt that says "Joe's Pizza Tastes Like S**T", Joe has every right to tell you not to wear that shirt. He would even be within his rights to fire you. Joe can prevent you from putting a sign on your car that says "Joe's Pizza Tastes Like S**T" while making deliveries off his property. Your First Amendment rights do not prevail or even come into play.

It may be legal for you to wear a thong bathing suit in public in your locale but Joe can darn well tell you that you can't wear it to work!

If Joe's Pizza has a rule that you cannot smoke while on duty, that rule applies whether you are in the shop or in your car making a delivery. You are on duty and you have agreed to abide by the rules when you accepted the job.

Employment is a contract between you and your employer. Whether you sign an agreement or verbally agree by accepting the job and the rules that govern the job, you voluntarily give up certain "rights" (see the examples above) by accepting the job. Whether or not you have the moral character to abide by that contract you made is a different story.
 
Don't like the policy? Don't work there.
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It's not that simple because most non LEO jobs prohibit employees from being armed, in my experience.

Provided there are no legal penalties and all you're risking is your job, my position is to simply carry concealed and no-one is the wiser unless you have to use it, in which case you may be saving lives. If the shortsighted company still decides to fire you, then so be it.

If one were "really" motivated he could always sue the company for a violation of his civil rights. A company, for instance, cannot prohibit you from voting, free speech, exercising your right to practice religion, etc. Actually they can fire you for saying something stupid, but you get the idea. The fact that you're on their private property is a big factor as they can determine what items are allowed on their property. I think you could make a compelling argument but still lose.
 
Pizza Delivery

I delivered pizzas from 16 yrs old and throughout college years. I was never armed (never even thought about it back then).

Now, if I were to do it again........

I'd definately be armed. Concealed. Very concealed.

I'd rather be without that job and alive, than employed but dead.

Where I work now, there is no mention of firearms. I carry 24/7 (well, as much as possible here in NC), but ALWAYS while at work. Nobody brings the subject up. I surely won't, because as soon as I do, someone will feel threatened and demand a policy be written.

Few things get my goat more than being told I "can't".

Personal priorities take precedent to company policies. If, when I were delivering a pizza, I got shot, I wouldn't be worrying if I still had a job or not. If I defended my life and shot someone, and lived, the same would apply. There is no company policy in the world that supercedes my ability to protect myself. I'll defy company policy until fired, but I won't defy self defense until dead. I'll gladly make that trade-off every time.
 
There's a St Louis area pizza chain store (independent franchise) in North St Louis County that encourages their people to get their license and carry concealed. (rough neighborhood). :)
 
So what did this guy lose for carrying a gun on the job? He lost a job delivering pizzas. More important, he still has his life. Much more important than delivering pizzas.

Who ultimately takes the loss and a bad reputation here? Not the armed delivery guy, but Pizza Hut themselves.
 
Showme I hope you and all our other MO guys order from them a lot. If I found a place like that I would order once a week minimum
 
Armed pizza delivery

Hell yes. Concealed, hell yes. Legal if possible, hell yes. Against company policy, well....don't ask, don't tell. No job is worth your life, except "defending the US Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic", and then, it is still your decision.

Some of you say "when you're on the clock, the company assumes liability". If company policy denies you self protection, does this mean that if you got shot (and lived) that you could sue the company for failure to protect you?

Good Luck. Maybe it will work, but even if it does you are still shot. OK, maybe you could not have prevented it if you were armed, but we'll never know for sure, will we?

And what about Federal worker protection laws? Why doesn't some sharp young pro 2nd Amendment lawyer type (if there is such a thing), looking to make case law, take this on? Your employer is obligated by law to inform you of hazards in your workplace, AND, PROVIDE you with personal protective equipment. OK, kind of far fetched to think they might (Heaven forbid) provide you with a gun, but how about "bulletproof" vests for people they knowingly send into dangerous areas?

This may not work if (under current law) the hazard is other human beings, but it would be interesting to get a legal professional opinion. Any takers out there?
 
When I ask do you carry a gun, I am not implying that the driver necessarily protect the bankroll. Instead he is protecting his person from "imminent danger". If someone is willing to rob a person for 20 or 30 bucks they are very desperate and just because you give them the money I would not expect to live. I am not talking about carrying the gun in the store or in any workplace, just on your person or in the car while out of the store. Just my 2 cents.

The driver should also get a bumper sticker that says, "Driver does not carry more than 20 dollars worth of ammunition." I bet that would go over real well with the corporate management and store manager! :eek:
 
Here's what ya do.

Call Pizza Hut or whoever owns it. Get the name of the CEO and his secretary, along with address. You will be able to get it. It's available.

Write a letter to the CEO explaining your disagreement with their policy. Don't threaten a boycott, but explain that you have no problem whatsoever with an armed employee delivering pizza to your door. Do it in a businesslike manner. The fact that you took the time to send a letter will say it all.

Don't be long and rambling. Two short paragraphs can get the idea across and will look like you mean business.

Do not send e-mail or phone in your complaint. You will not likely talk to the CEO. But a physical letter on paper will get in his hands.

Beyond that, all an employee can do is what I did. Decide what's more replacable your life or your job.
 
I don't have a problem with pizza dudes packing. I certainly am when I open the door for them.

I think that the larger chains are worried about losing business from the uneducated/affraid of guns crowd if they were to allow their employee's to carry while on duty. Some people may not want to order a pizza from joe's pizza shack if there is a chance the delivery person may be armed. It just scares some people.
 
That is the reality of the corporate world. The dollar is the only thing that matters to them. People are their means to that almighty dollar so they will screw them any way possible if it makes them more money.
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Exactly.

In firing the armed pizza guy, Pizza Hut showed its true corporate philosophy: They would rather have an employee killed on the job than have one defend him/herself because they might get sued by the thug or his survivors.

What if the pizza guy had drawn a USMC Ka-Bar knife and scared the robbers off? My guess is he would have been fired. What if the pizza guy attacked them and beat them to a bloody pulp in defending himself? Again, my guess is he would have been fired. Why? Because Pizza Hut might get sued as a result.

Pizza Hut's bottom line? Three things -
1: Money is our God.
2: Delivery drivers are expendable.
3: When on the clock, our employees have no right to self defense.

That's why I will never again spend a nickel at Pizza Hut.

I say a man has got to stand for something. I do. And I never worry about the cost.
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Roger that!!
 
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