Kenneth L. Walters
New member
Anyone have experience with these and if so what do you think of them?
Armalite 223
- Thread starter Kenneth L. Walters
- Start date
Jamie Young
New member
Do you mean an AR-15 ?
If so HOld on to your seat!
[Edited by SodaPop on 03-06-2001 at 11:01 PM]
If so HOld on to your seat!
[Edited by SodaPop on 03-06-2001 at 11:01 PM]
Jamie Young
New member
Look up the AR-15 in the Search Function this a hot Topic here and its one of the Most inflammtory topics on this site. I have very little experience with them. I have fired two AR's for a total of about 50rds. This past weekend was only the second Time I fired an AR-15. I do like the feel of the rifle and they are accurate. I think the best thing about the AR is its possible to dress this gun up more than any other rifle out there. And there seems to be many variations. Ask WalterGAII he loves them!
If you want to form an opinion about the AR from People on this site look up the "AR HATERS CLUB" there are 4 threads on the AR that lovers and haters give.
There Ya Go !!!!!!!!!
If you want to form an opinion about the AR from People on this site look up the "AR HATERS CLUB" there are 4 threads on the AR that lovers and haters give.
There Ya Go !!!!!!!!!
I have no experience with an Armalite AR-15,but the general consensus is that they're well made.
An oft-mentioned phrase when discussing "which AR-15" is...stick to the ABC's (Armalite,Bushmaster,Colt).
Since I'm in the B camp, I might as well start the inevitable chant now.
Bushmaster...BUSHMASTER....BUSHMASTER!!
Carry on.
An oft-mentioned phrase when discussing "which AR-15" is...stick to the ABC's (Armalite,Bushmaster,Colt).
Since I'm in the B camp, I might as well start the inevitable chant now.
Bushmaster...BUSHMASTER....BUSHMASTER!!
Carry on.
Charmedlyfe
Moderator
Given the parts problems I've had with Bushmasters (and NOT had with my Armalite), the choice is clear. I like 'em because the Armalite is so precisely put together. No super-ugly tool or grind marks, every magazine works, finish is beautiful, no screwy 'parts don't fit' problems, and the guys at Armalite are a WHOLE lot better to deal with than Bushmaster. 'Nuff said.
Armalite makes a nice rifle
this is not a ford /chevy issue
its a regal/monte carlo issue.
its the same machine design from about 6 manufacturers
just subtle tweaks from each.
heres some data:
http://communities.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite&naventryid=155
AR-15 Rifle & Manufacturer Comparison
Many questions are asked about the AR-15s of the different manufactures. Here are listed all the major Manufacturers (not custom houses or gunsmiths) that produce
them. All the important details are listed and can be compared. AR-15 intended for defensive duty or field use should have M16 chambers (for reliable extraction
especially when dirty) and have at a minimum chrome lined chambers (again for reliable extraction). Chrome lined bores are highly desirable for AR-15s that are
used outside for their resistance to corrosion and ease of cleaning, and long life. Stainless barrels are considered the most accurate. SAAMI spec chambers for .223
contribute to high accuracy, but may cause problems if using mil-spec M193/M855 (see the ammo warning at the SAAMI website, search on "223") and length of
cartridge (Mil-Spec does allow for a longer neck). Also, if the chamber gets dirty or there is dirt on the ammo a SAAMI chamber will more likely have problems. The
4140 chrome/moly steel barrels are the most economical while providing some resistance to rust (note these are not chrome lined – there is just some chrome in the
steel to help with corrosion resistance). As a rule Stainless are the most accurate, followed by a good chrome/moly (like Colt's), then chrome lined. However, a good
chrome lined barrel (like Bushmaster's) can outshoot a mediocre chrome moly barrel (cheaper AR brands). Good chrome lined barrels can do better than 1MOA with
decent ammunition (just like great stainless barrels can do very poorly with cheap ammo). HBARs (heavy barrels) are now standard for AR-15s, but if you intend on
carrying your rifle in the field I'd recommend something lighter. A variety of methods can be used to lighten the barrel; the A1 style is the lightest, the A2(20")/M4
(16" or 14.5") have a thin barrel under the hand guards and a HBAR in front of the sight, fluting reduces weight the least, but keeps a stiffer barrel than the other
methods. Standard Trigger Pins are the most desired since they allow you to get replacement fire control parts easily (and inexpensively), also you can use demilled
(full auto notches removed) M-16 parts if AR parts get hard to find. Standard pins also include the front take down pin (pivot pin); the military style push pin (same as
the rear one) is the most common and easiest to use. A DCM variant is an AR-15 setup for DCM/CMP Service Rifle matches (all the match goodies while conforming
to the rules).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Armalite (Geneseo, IL):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: Standard on some variants (not on "Match" rifles)
Chamber Type: SAAMI (Match Rifles), M16 for chromed barrels (Note: barrels produced before 2000 all had SAAMI chambers).
Barrel Material: 4140 chrome/moly, Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: 7.62x51 (.308), .243 (both as AR-10 variant)
Lightweight Styles Available: None
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Extras: 7 round magazine, manual, sling, magazine cover, magazine well cover
Notes: Chrome lined rifles are field capable, the rest are great range (target shooting) rifles. Green furniture (hand guards,
pistol grip, stock) is available on some models. Carbine handguards are mid-length (have a longer sight radius than most
other carbines) - its non standard, but looks better and has a better sight radius.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ASA (Scottsdale, AZ):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers : No
Chamber Type: SAAMI
Barrel Material: 4140 chrome/moly, Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: .308 (7.62 NATO) is expected soon (last quarter 2000)
Lightweight Styles Available: Fluted
Warranty: None Noted??
Extras: None Noted.
Notes: They are entering an agreement (possibly an exclusive) to market the new 'plastic lowers' (see the FAQ) made by Cavarly
Arms, to make a very lightweight rifle..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bushmaster (aka Quality Parts) (Windham, ME):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: Standard (not avail on DCM rifle)
Chamber Type: M16 (except DCM Rifle which is SAAMI)
Barrel Material: 4150 chrome/moly (Mil-Spec)
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: No
Lightweight Styles Available: A2 (preban only), M4, Fluting
Warranty: Limited 1 year parts & workmanship
Extras: Hard case, 10 round magazine, nylon sling, manual. DCM/CMP rifles add a 2nd magazine and a Viper range safety
device.
Notes: Closest to Mil-Spec AR-15s that are field capable and accurate. Good Customer Service. Some have had indexing
problems resulting in excessive windage for zeroing (fixed for free). Canadian C7 uppers are available (A1 upper with brass
deflector) and are called A1 uppers in the catalog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Colt (Hartford, CT):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: All current manufacture 5.56 rifles have chromed chambers, only M4 & A2 barrels have
chrome bores (older barrels do have both chrome lined bores & chambers)
Chamber Type: M16
Barrel Material: 4150 chrome/moly (Mil-Spec)
Standard Pins: Depends. "Blue Label" rifles have proprietary fire control pins with a standard pivot pin. Other rifles (SP-1s &
most green labels) have standard fire control pins with a proprietary pivot pin. There are also probably some rifles with both
pins standard and a few where neither pin is standard.
DCM Variant: No (but an upgraded trigger is available for match shooting)
Other Calibers: 7.62x39 (no longer produced), 9mm, .222 (very rare, no longer produced)
Lightweight Styles Available: A2 (preban), M4 (preban), (A1 style can be found on older pre-ban rifles)
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Extras: Two(2) magazines (LEO rifles have hi-caps, others are 9 rounds), sling, manual, cleaning kit
Notes: AR-15s that are field capable and accurate. Poor Customer Service. Generally the most bug free from the factory. A1
barrel styles are no longer available (but can be found from Colt parts distributors). Most Colt’s can accept other Mfg’s uppers
without adapter pins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
DPMS (Becker, MN):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: No
Chamber Type: M16 (chamber is M16 though barrel is marked .223)
Barrel Material: Stainless, 4140 chrome/moly (on 'Classic' series)
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: 7.62x39
Lightweight Styles Available: Fluting
Warranty: None. However, they will repair rifles up to 3 years after date of purchase due to defects in materials or
workmanship.
Extras: Two(2) 10 round magazines, nylon sling, cleaning kit
Notes: Very Accurate AR-15s that are more suited for the range, varmint hunting and urban sniping. They also a left handed
variant for southpaws, and a pump action AR-15 that avoids the limitations of the 1994 "Assault Weapon Ban".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Eagle Arms (Geneseo, IL):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: No
Chamber Type: SAAMI
Barrel Material: 4140 chrome/moly
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: No
Other Calibers: .308 (Budget AR-10 rifle < $1000)
Lightweight Styles Available: None
Warranty: Limited one year
Extras: None Noted.
Notes: Entry-level AR-15. EA is owned by Armalite and is put out as their ‘economy’ line.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hesse (Inver Grove, MN):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers : No
Chamber Type: M16 is standard, SAAMI is used on 'Match' rifles
Barrel Material: 4140 Chrome Moly, Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: 7.62x39, 6mmx45, 6mmPPC, .300 Fireball (Whisper), .17 Remington, .50AE
Lightweight Styles Available: None
Warranty: None. However, they will repair rifles up to 1 year after date of purchase due to defects in materials or workmanship.
Extras: Magazine, manual
Notes: Those with the M16 chambers and stainless barrels should do well in the field, just be sure to keep that chamber clean.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Olympic Arms (Olympia, WA):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: Available as an upgrade (Standard on premium line)
Chamber Type: SAAMI (unless other is specified, barrel is always marked 5.56 no matter what the chamber is)
Barrel Material: 4140 chrome/moly, Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: 7.62x39, 6mm PPC, .22LR, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45ACP, 10mm, .17Rem (in the past)
Lightweight Styles Available: A1, A2, M4, Fluting
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Extras: 10 round magazine, nylon sling, manual, hard case
Notes: Good Customer Service. Their Stainless Ultra Match (SUM) barrels are VERY accurate. New premium line should be
good for the field. Good entry level (reasonably priced) AR-15. A wide variety of calibers available, and the pistol calibers can be
setup to use your pistol magazines. A fixed ‘collapsible’ style stock is available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Rock River Arms (Cleveland, IL):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: No
Chamber Type: Unknown
Barrel Material: 4140 chrome/moly, Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: No
Lightweight Styles Available: No
Warranty: Unkown
Extras: Unkown
Notes: RRA has a good reputation among the DCM shooters. They also offer some unique items such as a Short fixed
buttstock (shorter than A1), a removable front sight, and mid length handguards (like Armalites). Green furnature is
available. Good pricing on M4 handguards.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wilson Combat (Berryville, AR):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: No
Chamber Type: Origianally SAAMI, they are now produced with M16 chambers.
Barrel Material: Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: No
Lightweight Styles Available: M4, Fluting
Warranty: Lifetime
Extras: Magazine
Notes: "High End" AR-15 that promises great accuracy.
this is not a ford /chevy issue
its a regal/monte carlo issue.
its the same machine design from about 6 manufacturers
just subtle tweaks from each.
heres some data:
http://communities.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite&naventryid=155
AR-15 Rifle & Manufacturer Comparison
Many questions are asked about the AR-15s of the different manufactures. Here are listed all the major Manufacturers (not custom houses or gunsmiths) that produce
them. All the important details are listed and can be compared. AR-15 intended for defensive duty or field use should have M16 chambers (for reliable extraction
especially when dirty) and have at a minimum chrome lined chambers (again for reliable extraction). Chrome lined bores are highly desirable for AR-15s that are
used outside for their resistance to corrosion and ease of cleaning, and long life. Stainless barrels are considered the most accurate. SAAMI spec chambers for .223
contribute to high accuracy, but may cause problems if using mil-spec M193/M855 (see the ammo warning at the SAAMI website, search on "223") and length of
cartridge (Mil-Spec does allow for a longer neck). Also, if the chamber gets dirty or there is dirt on the ammo a SAAMI chamber will more likely have problems. The
4140 chrome/moly steel barrels are the most economical while providing some resistance to rust (note these are not chrome lined – there is just some chrome in the
steel to help with corrosion resistance). As a rule Stainless are the most accurate, followed by a good chrome/moly (like Colt's), then chrome lined. However, a good
chrome lined barrel (like Bushmaster's) can outshoot a mediocre chrome moly barrel (cheaper AR brands). Good chrome lined barrels can do better than 1MOA with
decent ammunition (just like great stainless barrels can do very poorly with cheap ammo). HBARs (heavy barrels) are now standard for AR-15s, but if you intend on
carrying your rifle in the field I'd recommend something lighter. A variety of methods can be used to lighten the barrel; the A1 style is the lightest, the A2(20")/M4
(16" or 14.5") have a thin barrel under the hand guards and a HBAR in front of the sight, fluting reduces weight the least, but keeps a stiffer barrel than the other
methods. Standard Trigger Pins are the most desired since they allow you to get replacement fire control parts easily (and inexpensively), also you can use demilled
(full auto notches removed) M-16 parts if AR parts get hard to find. Standard pins also include the front take down pin (pivot pin); the military style push pin (same as
the rear one) is the most common and easiest to use. A DCM variant is an AR-15 setup for DCM/CMP Service Rifle matches (all the match goodies while conforming
to the rules).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Armalite (Geneseo, IL):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: Standard on some variants (not on "Match" rifles)
Chamber Type: SAAMI (Match Rifles), M16 for chromed barrels (Note: barrels produced before 2000 all had SAAMI chambers).
Barrel Material: 4140 chrome/moly, Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: 7.62x51 (.308), .243 (both as AR-10 variant)
Lightweight Styles Available: None
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Extras: 7 round magazine, manual, sling, magazine cover, magazine well cover
Notes: Chrome lined rifles are field capable, the rest are great range (target shooting) rifles. Green furniture (hand guards,
pistol grip, stock) is available on some models. Carbine handguards are mid-length (have a longer sight radius than most
other carbines) - its non standard, but looks better and has a better sight radius.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ASA (Scottsdale, AZ):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers : No
Chamber Type: SAAMI
Barrel Material: 4140 chrome/moly, Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: .308 (7.62 NATO) is expected soon (last quarter 2000)
Lightweight Styles Available: Fluted
Warranty: None Noted??
Extras: None Noted.
Notes: They are entering an agreement (possibly an exclusive) to market the new 'plastic lowers' (see the FAQ) made by Cavarly
Arms, to make a very lightweight rifle..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bushmaster (aka Quality Parts) (Windham, ME):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: Standard (not avail on DCM rifle)
Chamber Type: M16 (except DCM Rifle which is SAAMI)
Barrel Material: 4150 chrome/moly (Mil-Spec)
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: No
Lightweight Styles Available: A2 (preban only), M4, Fluting
Warranty: Limited 1 year parts & workmanship
Extras: Hard case, 10 round magazine, nylon sling, manual. DCM/CMP rifles add a 2nd magazine and a Viper range safety
device.
Notes: Closest to Mil-Spec AR-15s that are field capable and accurate. Good Customer Service. Some have had indexing
problems resulting in excessive windage for zeroing (fixed for free). Canadian C7 uppers are available (A1 upper with brass
deflector) and are called A1 uppers in the catalog.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Colt (Hartford, CT):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: All current manufacture 5.56 rifles have chromed chambers, only M4 & A2 barrels have
chrome bores (older barrels do have both chrome lined bores & chambers)
Chamber Type: M16
Barrel Material: 4150 chrome/moly (Mil-Spec)
Standard Pins: Depends. "Blue Label" rifles have proprietary fire control pins with a standard pivot pin. Other rifles (SP-1s &
most green labels) have standard fire control pins with a proprietary pivot pin. There are also probably some rifles with both
pins standard and a few where neither pin is standard.
DCM Variant: No (but an upgraded trigger is available for match shooting)
Other Calibers: 7.62x39 (no longer produced), 9mm, .222 (very rare, no longer produced)
Lightweight Styles Available: A2 (preban), M4 (preban), (A1 style can be found on older pre-ban rifles)
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Extras: Two(2) magazines (LEO rifles have hi-caps, others are 9 rounds), sling, manual, cleaning kit
Notes: AR-15s that are field capable and accurate. Poor Customer Service. Generally the most bug free from the factory. A1
barrel styles are no longer available (but can be found from Colt parts distributors). Most Colt’s can accept other Mfg’s uppers
without adapter pins.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
DPMS (Becker, MN):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: No
Chamber Type: M16 (chamber is M16 though barrel is marked .223)
Barrel Material: Stainless, 4140 chrome/moly (on 'Classic' series)
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: 7.62x39
Lightweight Styles Available: Fluting
Warranty: None. However, they will repair rifles up to 3 years after date of purchase due to defects in materials or
workmanship.
Extras: Two(2) 10 round magazines, nylon sling, cleaning kit
Notes: Very Accurate AR-15s that are more suited for the range, varmint hunting and urban sniping. They also a left handed
variant for southpaws, and a pump action AR-15 that avoids the limitations of the 1994 "Assault Weapon Ban".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Eagle Arms (Geneseo, IL):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: No
Chamber Type: SAAMI
Barrel Material: 4140 chrome/moly
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: No
Other Calibers: .308 (Budget AR-10 rifle < $1000)
Lightweight Styles Available: None
Warranty: Limited one year
Extras: None Noted.
Notes: Entry-level AR-15. EA is owned by Armalite and is put out as their ‘economy’ line.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Hesse (Inver Grove, MN):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers : No
Chamber Type: M16 is standard, SAAMI is used on 'Match' rifles
Barrel Material: 4140 Chrome Moly, Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: 7.62x39, 6mmx45, 6mmPPC, .300 Fireball (Whisper), .17 Remington, .50AE
Lightweight Styles Available: None
Warranty: None. However, they will repair rifles up to 1 year after date of purchase due to defects in materials or workmanship.
Extras: Magazine, manual
Notes: Those with the M16 chambers and stainless barrels should do well in the field, just be sure to keep that chamber clean.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Olympic Arms (Olympia, WA):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: Available as an upgrade (Standard on premium line)
Chamber Type: SAAMI (unless other is specified, barrel is always marked 5.56 no matter what the chamber is)
Barrel Material: 4140 chrome/moly, Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: 7.62x39, 6mm PPC, .22LR, 9mm, .40 S&W, .45ACP, 10mm, .17Rem (in the past)
Lightweight Styles Available: A1, A2, M4, Fluting
Warranty: Limited Lifetime
Extras: 10 round magazine, nylon sling, manual, hard case
Notes: Good Customer Service. Their Stainless Ultra Match (SUM) barrels are VERY accurate. New premium line should be
good for the field. Good entry level (reasonably priced) AR-15. A wide variety of calibers available, and the pistol calibers can be
setup to use your pistol magazines. A fixed ‘collapsible’ style stock is available.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Rock River Arms (Cleveland, IL):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: No
Chamber Type: Unknown
Barrel Material: 4140 chrome/moly, Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: No
Lightweight Styles Available: No
Warranty: Unkown
Extras: Unkown
Notes: RRA has a good reputation among the DCM shooters. They also offer some unique items such as a Short fixed
buttstock (shorter than A1), a removable front sight, and mid length handguards (like Armalites). Green furnature is
available. Good pricing on M4 handguards.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Wilson Combat (Berryville, AR):
Chrome Lined Barrels & Chambers: No
Chamber Type: Origianally SAAMI, they are now produced with M16 chambers.
Barrel Material: Stainless
Standard Pins: Yes
DCM Variant: Yes
Other Calibers: No
Lightweight Styles Available: M4, Fluting
Warranty: Lifetime
Extras: Magazine
Notes: "High End" AR-15 that promises great accuracy.
AR 15
There are some very good sights to check out re: Ar 15
http://www.EGPWorld.com
http://www.Zediker.com
http://www.Accuracyspeaks.com
I am reluctant to even presume to give tips to an obvious expert like Ken Walters.
You can get processed brass from http://www.rvow.com or Scharch Manufacturing.
I got my Pro 2000 last week and haven't set it up yet. It was a very difficult decision to go with it and not the Dillon. I read Ken's posts on the topic this week and found them reassuring.
There are some very good sights to check out re: Ar 15
http://www.EGPWorld.com
http://www.Zediker.com
http://www.Accuracyspeaks.com
I am reluctant to even presume to give tips to an obvious expert like Ken Walters.
You can get processed brass from http://www.rvow.com or Scharch Manufacturing.
I got my Pro 2000 last week and haven't set it up yet. It was a very difficult decision to go with it and not the Dillon. I read Ken's posts on the topic this week and found them reassuring.
Kenneth L. Walters
New member
??
Ken Waters writes about rifles. Kenneth L. Walters (me) writes about reloading. What I know about rifles you could write on the head of a pin and have room left over.
Ken Waters writes about rifles. Kenneth L. Walters (me) writes about reloading. What I know about rifles you could write on the head of a pin and have room left over.
As a Highpower Competitor, I see Armalite as one of the premier names in AR15's. Last year's National Highpower Rifle Championship was won with an Armalite M15A2 NM, essentially out of the box. Armalite has impressed me with their "giving back" to the shooting sports as well. They have sponsored junior teams for years now.