Arizona on European T.V.

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paratrooper

New member
The BBC did a story on the ranchers around Douglas and their run ins with illegals coming across their property .
They interviewed a Border Patrol Officer that said the ranchers should " call them " and not to take action . This is hogwash . BUT!!! The real crapola was from the Consul in Mexico that is concerned that the civil rights of these ILLEGALS!!!!! as they SNEAK into the U.S. in direct VIOLATION OF THE LAW!!!!! were being violated . Voilated ? HEY! Jose Consul . Check out what "civil rights" Americans have while in Mexico . The horror stories are too numerous to mention .
How can anyone trespass and have "rights" ? If I break into his house can I "demand" breakfast ? THINK NOT!!!
People in Douglas need help . http://www.ranchrescue.com/theranchers.htm

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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA
 
Paratrooper, don't forget that U.S. Border Patrol agents are nothing more than government employees. They must preach the standard govt line, or the will be fired.

They are not about to say that U.S. serfs and peasants have any Rights. To do so would be to directly contradict their administrators and of course, the King in the Red Castle.

To govt employees, we serfs and peasants have NO RIGHTS, merely govt. granted privileges.

J.B.
 
Paratrooper, your point is well taken and in agreement with the majority of Americans. Most Americans don't speak out on this issue because they don't want to look "politically incorrect." I can assure you any of the founding fathers and leaders from prior centuries would have had no problem defending the nation's borders. Hell, we fought a Mexican-American War, that's where Robert E. Lee earned his battle credentials.
I was reading in a Gun magazine once about the heroic Texas Rangers in defending the nation's borders. Times sure have changed.

Jay, I'm glad you feel real good about government employees who are just 'doing their job' so they don't get fired. Now, that's a noble position. Perhaps instead of a statue of Lee, there should be a monument of a border agent in former Arizona, the new province of Mexico. "He protected his job and got his retirement benefits."
 
This is ridiculous. It seems to me that a person committing a crime should have very few, if not zero, civil rights. I wish the Supreme Court would have said so a long time a go, that would have solved a lot of problems...

So the question is: What rights should they be allowed?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seronac:
This is ridiculous. It seems to me that a person committing a crime should have very few, if not zero, civil rights. I wish the Supreme Court would have said so a long time a go, that would have solved a lot of problems...

So the question is: What rights should they be allowed?[/quote]

People have been granted Civil Rights so as to be able to charge those that abuse them . In it's purist form any person sneaking into this country can be hunted and killed as sport . They did not exist therefore they were not killed . You could capture one and keep them as a slave for the rest of their lives . So the Gov't. in it's infinite wisdom gives these people all the rights that we have with one small exception . If you do anything to them it's racist and therefore a hate crime . No one need prove racism . Just say it . Years ago if an allegation like that were made proof must be forthcoming or a lawsuit would reap rewards for the accused . Libel , slander and defamation of character . No more .This just plain SUCKS!!!!



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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA
 
Boiled down to it:

The government of the United States (and the referenced article) is favoring the "civil rights" of foreign nationals over the "civil rights" of the victims of the trespass, who are property-owning U.S. citizens, indeed all U.S. citizens.

Why is this? Can you say New World Order?

Ledbetter
 
The newly elected president of mexico, if he lives to get inagurated, is supposedly going to fix this. Most of this has to do with the mexican gov. ignoring the calls of the US. I would love to see the odds from a bookie to see if this guy will actually live to see himself president.

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"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force."

--Ayn Rand, in "The Nature of Government"
 
The quickest way to solve this problem is to

1. Not buy any homes that were built using
Mexican labor
2. Stop eating at restuarants that use
Mexicans to cook and bus.
3. Don't stay at hotels where Mexicans are working as maids.
4. Don't buy or eat any food that is picked
by Mexicans.
5. Don't let your children go to Mexico
during holidays.

There economy has been suppressed, the people are being oppressed. And for one reason, to provide cheap labor for American business.

We the US give millions of dollars to the Mexican government, most of which ends up in Swiss accounts of the families who rule Mexico.

The ranchers are within their rights to detain these tresspassers, and if need be defend themselves.

But, if we all are not prepared to boycott the enterprises I have mentioned above, and stop our government from sending money over there, then we need to quit complaining.

Waterdog




[This message has been edited by Waterdog (edited July 12, 2000).]
 
Hey Waterdog,
Why don't they just throw open the borders and declare it's an open door to the U.S.? Stop pushing the problem on honest citizens like Roger Barnett. Because that position, open borders, is UNELECTABLE. The majority of Americans are not for open borders. The reality, though, is in essence an open border policy on the backsides of good, honest citizens like Roger Barnett. Americans need to wake up to the dishonesty of our politicians.
 
Open borders vs. closed is a strange animal.

Ironically, liberals favor (at least unskilled) immigration to swell the voter count for their cause. Ultimately, the socialist ideology must stand for closed borders due to money becoming tighter the most socialism there is (i.e. in socialism ultimately invididuals become burdens leading to draconian measures like in China/Soviet Union).

A human being's rights exist outside of national boundaries, they are a natural right. That said, respecting people's natural rights we must include the right to defense and property, in which case it's not open season on people from a particular country; but rather open season on people who violate the farmer's right to life/means to sustain it (property).


Battler.
 
And Battler, whom might I ask is violating the farmer's right to sustain his property?
Is it the government? Jay Baker says the border agents are just doing their job. What about the elected leaders? What about Gov. Bush? What's Mr. Bush going to do about it?
:D It's hypocrisy like that that's the reason I'm not voting for Bush.
 
Open Borders do not work between countries of differing socioeconomic statures. Everything tends to go one way; out of the wealthy country and into the poor. Part of the problem with illegal immigrants is that they take up jobs without paying taxes and often take their money back across the border to spend there. I think the US should go back to a version of the original immigration policies. Anyone is welcome to stay as long as they have and can hold a job, pay their taxes like the rest of the citizens and live here.

As for what rights do immigrants have; the same as the rest of us. Remember ALL men are created equal... They should get he same treatment every American gets. You have rights until you chose to excercise those rights in violation of another's rights. The immigrants that choose to trespass should not be given special treatment and let go because they happen to be Mexicans. The violated the law by trespassing on private property. The owner has every right to tell you to leave his land. If you refuse that is now criminal trespass and the owner has the right to call the police or INS if they see fit.

I dont see what all the hub-bub is about. I dont recall any of these farmers going out on a hunting expedition to kill themselves some immigrants.
 
Cleancut, you obviously didn't read my post.
The illegals are here because of the work, not because they want to live in the US.
I work with these people on a daily basis, I have asked many of them as a standard question. Where would you like to live?, to the man, they all say Mexico. The Mexican government recieves millions of dollars from the US, the majority of this money ends up in the personal accounts of the bureacrats who run the country. The people are so poor they have to send their children to work, just to put beans on the table. The children don't educated, and this only perpetuates the
problem. This isn't an accident, it is by design. The name of the game is (CHEAP LABOR) The problem with Americans is they like to have their cake and eat it too. Don't get pi**ed at me, because they pick the strawberries in your fruit basket, and wash your cars.

On the contrary Taz, they do pay taxes, but many don't file. I do commercial construction, 70% of the work force are Mexicans. They pay SS, federal and state taxes. With a large portion being illegal, they don't file for fear of being exported.

Waterdog
 
Hey, look. I don't mind Mexicans. They're a hard working, Christian people. :eek: Sometimes they get alittle nationalistic at times. What's wrong with that? That's what a healthy people are supposed to do, defend their nation's interests.

Americans have a problem with that regard. Elected leaders are allowing thousands of illegals to overrun our nation's borders while simultaneously pretending to be doing something about the situation. You can say it's a way of getting more votes for the Democrats if you like. Mr Bush doesn't have any plans to alleviate the situation though either. Then, of course, there's always the media complaining about racism and discrimination. Who's standing up for what most Americans want? A majority of Americans want to control our nation's borders.
 
Cleancut:

"Mr Bush doesn't have any plans to alleviate the situation though either."

Bush has proposed splitting up the INS into essentially two separate agencies. One to speed up the legal immigration process, and another to more aggressively address the border problem. Short of shooting illegals when they cross, what would you propose he do?

Dick
Want to send Bush a message? Sign the petition at http://www.petitiononline.com/monk/petition.html and forward the link to every gun owner you know.
 
For one thing, Bush should discuss the issue, make it an important part of his platform. Mr. Bush won't, because he doesn't want to lose those "important" votes. Sounds alot like Al Gore, now doesn't it?

I agree with Pat Buchanan's platform. It's listed as an important item on his website www.gopatgo.org. Obviously, the ranchers agree with Buchanan because they have him listed on their website (see www.ranchrescue.com/theranchers.htm)

By the way, Mr. Bush also doesn't want to lose the gun control side either, evidently :o. Your candidate has serious problems, Monkeyleg. Why do you have to sign a petition to get him to do what you want? Sounds like Viagra Republicans all over again.

Well, good luck and all the best. :)
 
As a former Texas DPS Trooper told me: "Let the Americans along the border take over all the bridges and border crossings and shut them down. The see how long it takes for all of the big corporations with plants in the NAFTA to stop the flow of illegals and drugs into our country."

I like this guy.

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"When guns are outlawed;I will be an outlaw."
 
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