Are tritium inserts in rear sights necessary?

A

Aqil

Inactive
I'm looking to buy some Mepros for my my new P225, but a good friend of mine buys tritium front sights only. He claims that all he needs to find in low light is his front sight. This is beginning to make sense to me. I'm looking for opinions.

Also, who has Mepros cheapest and do they offer different colors for the rear? Can you buy just the front sight? I have PT's with red rear on my G21. I like the red, but the front sight is too dim. Thanx.
 
I just sent a set of PTs back to the factory yesterday, because they had dimmed so badly in less than a year...

Perhaps you can get the one that's dim replaced, under warranty. (With autos, you can just send the slide, by mail -- no need to worry about the $$$$UPS costs.)

I've read several guys recently advocating just putting tritium on the front sights. Perhaps that would work, but I'm sceptical. While you SHOULD focus on the front sight and not the target, you've got to see that rear sight, too.

Perhaps you can get your friends to DEMONSTRATE the effectiveness of this approach some evening -- before you spring for a front sight only.
 
I'd try it both ways, "full" night sights and just the front sight. You can decide which you prefer. I've done this and still cannot make up what I call my mind. ;)

Erik
 
The problem with just having the front sight illuminated is that the gun may not be aligned properly. In other words, you could have what appears to be the front sight on target, but the gun is pointed off at a 45 degree angle. You need the rear sight illuminated so that you can line it up with the front. This is providing you're in total darkness and that you can't see your gun at all except the sights. If you are in dim light, you can probably get away with it. Try it out, but just the front and then get a rear later.
 
I have been using the Ashley Express sites for the past year and have found them to be excellent. This system utilizes a tritium front site and a standard rear. I a CQB shooting situation the rear site is less than important. As to position of the weapon, if you have a proper grip, there should be no question of where it is pointed. And the concern of aligning the sites in total darkness really baffles me, due to if its completely dark, how can you be sure of what or who you are shooting. In most nite situations there will be ambient light. If this night firing scenario is of great concern, then invest in a quality flashlight. This will not only illuminate the target, but provide the ambient light to see the rear site if you find that a necessity.

Be Safe
Mike
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aqil:
I'm looking to buy some Mepros for my my new P225, but a good friend of mine buys tritium front sights only. He claims that all he needs to find in low light is his front sight. This is beginning to make sense to me. I'm looking for opinions.

Also, who has Mepros cheapest and do they offer different colors for the rear? Can you buy just the front sight? I have PT's with red rear on my G21. I like the red, but the front sight is too dim. Thanx.[/quote]
 
If you are looking for "cheap" night sights, then you do not need them. Front only verses full inserts is a matter of personal preference. I use only inserts from Trijicon on my custom combat handguns-PERIOD!SC <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aqil:
I'm looking to buy some Mepros for my my new P225, but a good friend of mine buys tritium front sights only. He claims that all he needs to find in low light is his front sight. This is beginning to make sense to me. I'm looking for opinions.

Also, who has Mepros cheapest and do they offer different colors for the rear? Can you buy just the front sight? I have PT's with red rear on my G21. I like the red, but the front sight is too dim. Thanx.[/quote]
 
I prefer a tritium dot in the front sight only. It is well to remember what we are trying to do here. We are trying to index the pistol so as to get good center-of-mass hits at conversational distances. If the lighting is such that it is too dark to see plain sights, but light enough to positively identify the threat, then the level of precision obtained with a tritium dot in the front sight ONLY is more than sufficient.

As to the notion of needing an illuminated rear sight in order to prevent pointing the pistol off at some wild angle...well, if you've shot a bit, this just isn't going to happen. One would have to grasp the pistol horribly wrong to put it far enough off target to matter.

There is also the issue of some users shooting too slowly when using an illuminated rear sight. The shooter sees the illuminated sight much more clearly than he would see a plain sight in daylight. Because he can see it so well, he wastes time trying to align it with the front TOO precisely.

Rosco
 
Walt Its all a mater of preference, Being an IDPA shooter some times front only is fine, but for others Its both, If you stay with front only then you should practice to make shure you are not missaligning your sights in low light conditions.SC <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Walt Sherrill:
I just sent a set of PTs back to the factory yesterday, because they had dimmed so badly in less than a year...

Perhaps you can get the one that's dim replaced, under warranty. (With autos, you can just send the slide, by mail -- no need to worry about the $$$$UPS costs.)

I've read several guys recently advocating just putting tritium on the front sights. Perhaps that would work, but I'm sceptical. While you SHOULD focus on the front sight and not the target, you've got to see that rear sight, too.

Perhaps you can get your friends to DEMONSTRATE the effectiveness of this approach some evening -- before you spring for a front sight only.[/quote]
 
I have to disagee with you on the rear sight , If It is not that important , then It probably doesnt matter If you have a round enter your childs, nieghbors, loved ones living quarters? SIGHT ALIGHNMENT IS CRITICAL! IDPA shooter,Masterpistol smith, builder of high end custom guns. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by One:
I have been using the Ashley Express sites for the past year and have found them to be excellent. This system utilizes a tritium front site and a standard rear. I a CQB shooting situation the rear site is less than important. As to position of the weapon, if you have a proper grip, there should be no question of where it is pointed. And the concern of aligning the sites in total darkness really baffles me, due to if its completely dark, how can you be sure of what or who you are shooting. In most nite situations there will be ambient light. If this night firing scenario is of great concern, then invest in a quality flashlight. This will not only illuminate the target, but provide the ambient light to see the rear site if you find that a necessity.

Be Safe
Mike[/quote]
 
Rear inserts are necessary in my opinion for inexperienced shooters, etc.Beiging a competative shooter/ sponser of a top IDPA shooter, and builder of combat firearms, shot placement is very important.IE you think your sights are alighned with a front insert in near total darkness, with practice they are. But in reality the novice shooter just "killed" the living room lamp.There is no practicle sulution to this matter but practice. Steve Clark/STEVE CLARK CUSTOM
 
I feel you are totally off base with your comments,You back my previous comments on practice, but at conversational distances not needing rear inserts,or relying on front inserts only ,as you state "indexing the pistol", I can assure you "the indexing" is totally different in a leathal situation. Having been in that position I can assure you that sight picture/grip and presence of mind play crucial roles,I feel practice is very important, I am a mid range competitor and can still engage a perpetrater from leather/in hand and fire two shots mid section at 15 plus yards in less than 3 seconds, 7-10 in one to one and 1/2. It is a matter of practice. To say one is better is pure conjecture and speculation on anyones part. SC <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rosco Benson:
I prefer a tritium dot in the front sight only. It is well to remember what we are trying to do here. We are trying to index the pistol so as to get good center-of-mass hits at conversational distances. If the lighting is such that it is too dark to see plain sights, but light enough to positively identify the threat, then the level of precision obtained with a tritium dot in the front sight ONLY is more than sufficient.

As to the notion of needing an illuminated rear sight in order to prevent pointing the pistol off at some wild angle...well, if you've shot a bit, this just isn't going to happen. One would have to grasp the pistol horribly wrong to put it far enough off target to matter.

There is also the issue of some users shooting too slowly when using an illuminated rear sight. The shooter sees the illuminated sight much more clearly than he would see a plain sight in daylight. Because he can see it so well, he wastes time trying to align it with the front TOO precisely.

Rosco [/quote]
 
I feel you are totally off base with your comments,You back my previous comments on practice, but at conversational distances not needing rear inserts,or relying on front inserts only ,as you state "indexing the pistol", I can assure you "the indexing" is totally different in a leathal situation. Having been in that position I can assure you that sight picture/grip and presence of mind play crucial roles,I feel practice is very important, I am a mid range competitor and can still engage a perpetrater from leather/in hand and fire two shots mid section at 15 plus yards in less than 3 seconds, 7-10 in one to one and 1/2. It is a matter of practice. To say one is better is pure conjecture and speculation on anyones part. SC <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rosco Benson:
I prefer a tritium dot in the front sight only. It is well to remember what we are trying to do here. We are trying to index the pistol so as to get good center-of-mass hits at conversational distances. If the lighting is such that it is too dark to see plain sights, but light enough to positively identify the threat, then the level of precision obtained with a tritium dot in the front sight ONLY is more than sufficient.

As to the notion of needing an illuminated rear sight in order to prevent pointing the pistol off at some wild angle...well, if you've shot a bit, this just isn't going to happen. One would have to grasp the pistol horribly wrong to put it far enough off target to matter.

There is also the issue of some users shooting too slowly when using an illuminated rear sight. The shooter sees the illuminated sight much more clearly than he would see a plain sight in daylight. Because he can see it so well, he wastes time trying to align it with the front TOO precisely.

Rosco [/quote]
 
I guess I'll buy front and rear sights, put the front on and experiment. I can always install the rear later if I miss it.
 
Rosco and One, I have to agree. Sorry, Steve (and I too am a twice monthly IDPA shooter and have many hours of tactical training). I have given this topic much thought, and equipped my guns with front tritdot only. It IS personal preference, and I know numerous pro gunslingers (fwiw) who prefer front and rear dots.

The front sight is what you what you focus on, in addition to the target. If there is not enough light to identify/see the target, you shouldn't be shooting, or should use your flashlight. If the ambient light is enough to i.d. the target, it will generally be enough to see your sights, and the front dot will provide visual contrast or separation from the target, even if clad in black. Another benefit for a gun that does range duty in addition to carry/defense, is that an all black rear sight for range work is far better, so this one dot combo works great for dual purpose guns.

For most experienced shooters, I recommend front dot only. Or maybe Richard Heinie's Straight Eight's, with a single dot in the rear. But then, maybe novices have inexperience that night sights alone won't cure. imo
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rosco Benson:
I prefer a tritium dot in the front sight only. It is well to remember what we are trying to do here. We are trying to index the pistol so as to get good center-of-mass hits at conversational distances. If the lighting is such that it is too dark to see plain sights, but light enough to positively identify the threat, then the level of precision obtained with a tritium dot in the front sight ONLY is more than sufficient.

As to the notion of needing an illuminated rear sight in order to prevent pointing the pistol off at some wild angle...well, if you've shot a bit, this just isn't going to happen. One would have to grasp the pistol horribly wrong to put it far enough off target to matter.

There is also the issue of some users shooting too slowly when using an illuminated rear sight. The shooter sees the illuminated sight much more clearly than he would see a plain sight in daylight. Because he can see it so well, he wastes time trying to align it with the front TOO precisely.

Rosco [/quote]
 
Golly, Steve...my little post sure seems to have excited you. I'm frequently "totally off base" in many areas (in fact, I'm often so far off base that I'm up in the stands getting a hot dog from the vendor). This time, though, I think I'm on pretty sound footing. My preference is based on a considerable amount of low-light shooting. I have pistols with tritium dots on the rear sights too (both in the typical 3-dots-in-a-row and Heinie's "straight eight" configuration). If my observations indicated that my hits suffered as a result of a tritium dot in only the front sight, then I wouldn't prefer that setup...but they don't and I don't. I'll admit that it is PERSONAL preference...but it is a preference arrived at by considerable practical work with all of the typical night-sight configurations. No conjecture or speculation involved.

If you wish to regard my expression of my preference as advice, remember that it's free advice. If you don't like it, you can have your money back.

Rosco

[This message has been edited by Rosco Benson (edited February 25, 2000).]
 
Rosco,

Get me one o' them hotdogs, too. Mustard and relish. And maybe a frosty malt.

I hope it's a day game... you might be at a tactical disadvantage at a night game without those rear dots. ;)
 
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