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Are polymer frames really more durable than auminum frames?
- Thread starter Irfan
- Start date
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Yup.
Walt Sherrill
New member
I'm not sure that durability was the intent when polymer frames were designed.
They're far easier to manufacture, less expensive to maintain, seldom need cosmetic improvement, and are lighter. And when designed properly, the polymer has some "give" that makes them easier (less uncomfortable) to shoot tha steel or alloy frames.
The only polymer guns I've had were durable (in terms of the guns continuing ability to function) -- but no more so than my steel or polymer guns. But there were less easy to scratch or cosmetically affect. And, of course, they don't rust.
They're far easier to manufacture, less expensive to maintain, seldom need cosmetic improvement, and are lighter. And when designed properly, the polymer has some "give" that makes them easier (less uncomfortable) to shoot tha steel or alloy frames.
The only polymer guns I've had were durable (in terms of the guns continuing ability to function) -- but no more so than my steel or polymer guns. But there were less easy to scratch or cosmetically affect. And, of course, they don't rust.
True about polymer, but the comparison really isn't valid, since few guns are made with both types of frames. Aluminum frame guns generally are copies of steel frame guns, made solely to reduce weight. Polymer frame guns are new designs, developed especially to exploit the advantages of polymer. Weight reduction is not generally the primary reason for polymer use; long wear and resistance to the environment are more important.
Jim
Jim
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
The ability of the polymer to "give" is what I think would give it the advantage. Aluminum tends to crack more than flexing which leads me to believe that when it gets to the point where it has been stressed too long, it will just crack. Never seen it forst hand though.
Walt Sherrill
New member
I think polymer guns are much less expensive to build, too -- 'cause even with robotic production, steel guns are expensive, and alloys present their own production problems.
I've had a couple; I liked not having to worry about scratching the finish, and I like the feel of the material in my hand.
I've had a couple; I liked not having to worry about scratching the finish, and I like the feel of the material in my hand.
Wild Romanian
Moderator
Are polymer frames really more durable than auminum
In my opinion the primary reason the Gun companies went to polymer was exactly the same reason every other manufacturer of consumer goods went to plastic. Cheap, Cheap, Cheap, and along with it we did get lighter weight. We also got more vibration. Ever shoot 100 rounds out of glock and then compare the vibration to an all steel pistol. There is quite a difference. I will have to admit one thing, as much as I hate plastic pistols I would rather drop a plastic pistol on the pavement than a aluminum framed pistol. But I am careful where I store a plastic pistol. It really does not take all that much heat to damage them and they do not have to totally melt to get a warped frame. I personally have always perferred a beautifully blued weapon that is aesthetically pleasing which in turn has given me pride of ownership to the hideously ugly plastic frames guns. AS far as durablity I think that there are a lot of rust resistant finishes that do very well and they resisit chemical damage a lot better than a plastic framed gun. Of course there are also guns made of stainless steel. Buy what pleases you most. I have never been thrilled with the plastic framed pistols I have owned. They are shooting machines nothing more, nothing less , they cannot ever be works of art like the old fashioned blued steel guns. W.R.
In my opinion the primary reason the Gun companies went to polymer was exactly the same reason every other manufacturer of consumer goods went to plastic. Cheap, Cheap, Cheap, and along with it we did get lighter weight. We also got more vibration. Ever shoot 100 rounds out of glock and then compare the vibration to an all steel pistol. There is quite a difference. I will have to admit one thing, as much as I hate plastic pistols I would rather drop a plastic pistol on the pavement than a aluminum framed pistol. But I am careful where I store a plastic pistol. It really does not take all that much heat to damage them and they do not have to totally melt to get a warped frame. I personally have always perferred a beautifully blued weapon that is aesthetically pleasing which in turn has given me pride of ownership to the hideously ugly plastic frames guns. AS far as durablity I think that there are a lot of rust resistant finishes that do very well and they resisit chemical damage a lot better than a plastic framed gun. Of course there are also guns made of stainless steel. Buy what pleases you most. I have never been thrilled with the plastic framed pistols I have owned. They are shooting machines nothing more, nothing less , they cannot ever be works of art like the old fashioned blued steel guns. W.R.
There is a world of difference between any composite (such as a polymer) and any metallic (such as aluminum).
Fundamentally, metals eventually crack. If the structure and the metal material(s) are well designed and appropriate for the loads, crack initiation and propagation may take millions of cycles; however, eventually all metals crack.
Conversely, composites flex and, therefore, theoretically never crack within design loads. They have other problems -– delamination, debonding, strength/durability on composite/metallic interfaces -– but they should not crack.
Okay, that’s the theory. In practice, a properly designed/maintained handgun firing appropriate pressure loads should last a LONG time. Composites may have a hypothetical advantage compared to metals, but there are lots of 1911A1s and S&W Model 10s out there that have 100,000+ rounds fired with ZERO adverse longevity indications.
Fundamentally, metals eventually crack. If the structure and the metal material(s) are well designed and appropriate for the loads, crack initiation and propagation may take millions of cycles; however, eventually all metals crack.
Conversely, composites flex and, therefore, theoretically never crack within design loads. They have other problems -– delamination, debonding, strength/durability on composite/metallic interfaces -– but they should not crack.
Okay, that’s the theory. In practice, a properly designed/maintained handgun firing appropriate pressure loads should last a LONG time. Composites may have a hypothetical advantage compared to metals, but there are lots of 1911A1s and S&W Model 10s out there that have 100,000+ rounds fired with ZERO adverse longevity indications.
Drakejake
Actually the newest fighters like the F22 make extensive use of polimers in thier construction. Aluminum guns will crack polimer ones do not its about that simple. Polimer guns use steel guide rails to interface with the slide so they are more like steel framed guns. I find that shooting hundreds of rounds through a glock is very enjoyable and I notice no vibration.
PAT
Actually the newest fighters like the F22 make extensive use of polimers in thier construction. Aluminum guns will crack polimer ones do not its about that simple. Polimer guns use steel guide rails to interface with the slide so they are more like steel framed guns. I find that shooting hundreds of rounds through a glock is very enjoyable and I notice no vibration.
PAT
Wild Romanian
Moderator
Are polymer frames really more durable than auminum
Hello Russ
Wear on aluminum frames is not just a S&W problem. I can give you an example. I own a Walther P38 and a Walther P5 and both have aluminum frames. The P38 has a much lighter weight slide and therefore the slide has more rearward velocity than the Walther P5. The wear on the P38 after about 1,000 rounds is pretty sever but on the P5 there is almost no wear at all. In all farness to the P38 the accuracy in this piece is still very good. I once owned an early S&W model 39 and after about 5,000 rounds the frame started to disintegrate with the rear frame rails actually staring to break off. Aluminum frame guns in some models start to lose their accuracy very quickly once the frame rails start to wear. Some guns depending on the model are quite durable and some guns start to wear right away. The best advice I can give you is to keep your guns clean after every shooting and always use a good grade of gun oil and use a good grade of grease on all pressure points. Do not try to save a buck when it comes to lubricants. Use an oil designed for firearms and one that is designed to dissapate moisture. Always clean your weapon no matter how few rounds you put through it. Much of the wear on pistols comes from just plain neglect or using an improper lubricant not designed for use in firearms.
I have never been a great fan of aluminum frame guns, they are just about impossible to touch up when you get nicks or scratch marks on them. And of course if you drop them it is usually all over but the crying. I do own many aluminum frame guns simply because the particular model may not be available in steel. Also steel frame guns can always be gunsmithed and tightened up when they become loose. When you buy an aluminum framed gun or a plastic framed gun you usually must accept the level of accuracy that the gun is capable of giving you. Not so in steel frame guns. I have seen some specimans that were pretty sorry shooters turn into very accurate weapons because they were tightend up by a knowledgable gunsmith. If you stick with some of the classic all steel designs by John Browning there are many gunsmiths that specialize in turning even the military models into the most accurate pistols in the world, guns like the 1911 and the Browning high power. You have a lot of options with a classic steel framed gun and very few options with some of the newer plastic or alumimum framed guns W.R.
Hello Russ
Wear on aluminum frames is not just a S&W problem. I can give you an example. I own a Walther P38 and a Walther P5 and both have aluminum frames. The P38 has a much lighter weight slide and therefore the slide has more rearward velocity than the Walther P5. The wear on the P38 after about 1,000 rounds is pretty sever but on the P5 there is almost no wear at all. In all farness to the P38 the accuracy in this piece is still very good. I once owned an early S&W model 39 and after about 5,000 rounds the frame started to disintegrate with the rear frame rails actually staring to break off. Aluminum frame guns in some models start to lose their accuracy very quickly once the frame rails start to wear. Some guns depending on the model are quite durable and some guns start to wear right away. The best advice I can give you is to keep your guns clean after every shooting and always use a good grade of gun oil and use a good grade of grease on all pressure points. Do not try to save a buck when it comes to lubricants. Use an oil designed for firearms and one that is designed to dissapate moisture. Always clean your weapon no matter how few rounds you put through it. Much of the wear on pistols comes from just plain neglect or using an improper lubricant not designed for use in firearms.
I have never been a great fan of aluminum frame guns, they are just about impossible to touch up when you get nicks or scratch marks on them. And of course if you drop them it is usually all over but the crying. I do own many aluminum frame guns simply because the particular model may not be available in steel. Also steel frame guns can always be gunsmithed and tightened up when they become loose. When you buy an aluminum framed gun or a plastic framed gun you usually must accept the level of accuracy that the gun is capable of giving you. Not so in steel frame guns. I have seen some specimans that were pretty sorry shooters turn into very accurate weapons because they were tightend up by a knowledgable gunsmith. If you stick with some of the classic all steel designs by John Browning there are many gunsmiths that specialize in turning even the military models into the most accurate pistols in the world, guns like the 1911 and the Browning high power. You have a lot of options with a classic steel framed gun and very few options with some of the newer plastic or alumimum framed guns W.R.
I carried one model or another of 1911 for 26 years before switching to Glocks. The reason for the switch was I had worn out my third alloy framed Commander. I never shot +P loads through any of them, mostly ball or a handload duplicate. An engineering friend told me any metal will work harden this is apparently what happened to my Commanders. The three Colt's suffered their failures between 5,000 and 7,000 rounds. I have one Glock (a G21 with a BarSto barrel) that has already digested a little over 10,000 rounds.