Are Hi-Cap Mags really necessary? Part II
- Thread starter Schmit
- Start date
Everyone should be up in arms here! What a complete disregard for our rights! Not only has the government started to limit the capacity of our firearms magazines, but The Firing Line has also jumped on the political bandwagon and started implementing a "100 meg" limit on your discussions. And much like the government, they don't know what in the hell they are talking about. Much like refering to a magazine as a "clip", The Firing Line has mistaken the thread as "100 meg"'s when the bottom of the page says "100 K".
When will it ever end?
Just kidding Schmit. Please see the pure humor of this post and please don't erase it. I am in no way serious!
When will it ever end?
Just kidding Schmit. Please see the pure humor of this post and please don't erase it. I am in no way serious!
Jeff Thomas
New member
One of my favorite RKBA subjects.
1. I agree with Jeff, CA ... we help our enemies by calling them 'hi-cap mag's'. They are full capacity mag's, period.
2. The political implications of this discussion are very significant. There will come a day (I suspect all with agree with this) that the anti's will argue that 5 cartridges are enough. There is nothing magic about 10. The camel is in the tent.
3. Having full capacity magazines is simply having a firearm that can operate to its full potential. Not critical, but simply more capable, and flexible. All this debate about training, etc. seems a bit silly to me. Take two people, equally trained and skilled, with one equipped with full cap mag's and the other limited to 10 round mag's. Which firearm / shooter is more capable now? Given the choice, which situation would you choose? Seems obvious to me.
4. If the anti-self defense gun bigots want to limit us to 10 round mag's, then LEO's and the military should suffer the same limitation. Oh, but they protest, the LEO's are facing criminals everyday? Well, why do we call them criminals? Probably because they began preying upon civilians ... the same civilians the anti's want to limit to 10 round handicapped mag's.
5. It takes an investment, but I've met folks that have actually purchased mag's for firearms they don't yet own. They intend to buy the gun, but they fear the better mag's will all be gone or cost prohibitive by the time they finally own the firearm. Not an absurd perspective, IMHO.
A 'friend' told me that no one needs more than 10 rounds. 'If you need more than that', he said, 'then you're probably dead already.' Well, perhaps that is the likely case, but it is also likely I'll never be in a gun fight. Since I take some responsibility for my own defense, then I'll choose the tools, thank you.
Regards from AZ
1. I agree with Jeff, CA ... we help our enemies by calling them 'hi-cap mag's'. They are full capacity mag's, period.
2. The political implications of this discussion are very significant. There will come a day (I suspect all with agree with this) that the anti's will argue that 5 cartridges are enough. There is nothing magic about 10. The camel is in the tent.
3. Having full capacity magazines is simply having a firearm that can operate to its full potential. Not critical, but simply more capable, and flexible. All this debate about training, etc. seems a bit silly to me. Take two people, equally trained and skilled, with one equipped with full cap mag's and the other limited to 10 round mag's. Which firearm / shooter is more capable now? Given the choice, which situation would you choose? Seems obvious to me.
4. If the anti-self defense gun bigots want to limit us to 10 round mag's, then LEO's and the military should suffer the same limitation. Oh, but they protest, the LEO's are facing criminals everyday? Well, why do we call them criminals? Probably because they began preying upon civilians ... the same civilians the anti's want to limit to 10 round handicapped mag's.
5. It takes an investment, but I've met folks that have actually purchased mag's for firearms they don't yet own. They intend to buy the gun, but they fear the better mag's will all be gone or cost prohibitive by the time they finally own the firearm. Not an absurd perspective, IMHO.
A 'friend' told me that no one needs more than 10 rounds. 'If you need more than that', he said, 'then you're probably dead already.' Well, perhaps that is the likely case, but it is also likely I'll never be in a gun fight. Since I take some responsibility for my own defense, then I'll choose the tools, thank you.
Regards from AZ
Oh El, I think your completely serious! And there is sound wisdom in your post. Matter of fact, just like Hi-Cap mags, you know what my (like the Governemts) next step will be????
Limit Topics to one post. Just like a real Bullet Board you see in your suppermarkets! Ya know, where you stick up your post for all to see. Ever see a responce to any of those?
No replies, No Discussions, Only one post allowed per topic!
Now, that post can be as long as it wants, so long as it doesn't exceed the 100 K limit that is.
Waddy Tink about them thar Apples?
P.S. I never could keep that metric stuff streight. Not when the Govt tried to introduce it back in the what? 70s, nor now, with this computer techno babble, Kilo, Megs, Gigs, Hecto, WHAT EVVVVER
They sould have linked computer terminology with firearm terms... ya now " My computer? I've got two .416 Rigbys Hard Drives running off of a .375 H&H processor in an Over/Under Frame. Though I only got .32 of RAM now I'm picking up .357 more this evening. My CD is a 40X (wait that is linked already!)"
------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited May 03, 2000).]
And there is sound wisdom in your post. Matter of fact, just like Hi-Cap mags, you know what my (like the Governemts) next step will be????Limit Topics to one post. Just like a real Bullet Board you see in your suppermarkets! Ya know, where you stick up your post for all to see. Ever see a responce to any of those?
No replies, No Discussions, Only one post allowed per topic!
Now, that post can be as long as it wants, so long as it doesn't exceed the 100 K limit that is.
Waddy Tink about them thar Apples?
P.S. I never could keep that metric stuff streight. Not when the Govt tried to introduce it back in the what? 70s, nor now, with this computer techno babble, Kilo, Megs, Gigs, Hecto, WHAT EVVVVER
They sould have linked computer terminology with firearm terms... ya now " My computer? I've got two .416 Rigbys Hard Drives running off of a .375 H&H processor in an Over/Under Frame. Though I only got .32 of RAM now I'm picking up .357 more this evening. My CD is a 40X (wait that is linked already!)"
------------------
Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
[This message has been edited by Schmit (edited May 03, 2000).]
I look at it from this perspective.
Has the reduction of magazine capacity reduced crime one iota? No. What is the probable next step? Do away with the restriction or a further reduction of capacity? My bet is a 5 round limit is next, followed by a single shot, followed by nothing at all.
From that perspective, I would have to answer yes, the more the better as far as capacity is concerned.
(Besides, a $100.00 10 round drum magazine on a Thompson is so absurd it's laughable! That is if I can get my blood pressure down long enough to laugh.)
Has the reduction of magazine capacity reduced crime one iota? No. What is the probable next step? Do away with the restriction or a further reduction of capacity? My bet is a 5 round limit is next, followed by a single shot, followed by nothing at all.
From that perspective, I would have to answer yes, the more the better as far as capacity is concerned.
(Besides, a $100.00 10 round drum magazine on a Thompson is so absurd it's laughable! That is if I can get my blood pressure down long enough to laugh.)
The bottom line is that it should be an individual's choice whether he wants to have a 10 round mag or lug around a really heavy drum. Purchasing ammo is not restricted to buying 10 rounds at a time. Doesn't it seem kind of pointless to restrict how many are actually IN the weapon when you may buy as much as you want?
[This message has been edited by JNewhouse (edited May 03, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by JNewhouse (edited May 03, 2000).]
Jeff Thomas
New member
JNewhouse, welcome to TFL!
And, don't give the anti-self defense gun bigots anymore ideas ... 'course, they've already proposed limiting the quantity of ammunition you can purchase, how you can purchase it, how much you can store, and the caliber and type of ammunition. The '10 round limit' is just the tip of their iceberg.
Paranoid? Just do a search on TFL, and you'll end up looking at lots of proposed legislation, federal, state and local.
Regards from AZ
And, don't give the anti-self defense gun bigots anymore ideas ... 'course, they've already proposed limiting the quantity of ammunition you can purchase, how you can purchase it, how much you can store, and the caliber and type of ammunition. The '10 round limit' is just the tip of their iceberg.
Paranoid? Just do a search on TFL, and you'll end up looking at lots of proposed legislation, federal, state and local.
Regards from AZ
Do-Man, re your comment on the now "locked thread".
Author
Topic: comment to Do-Man
alan
Senior Member
posted May 03, 2000 12:36 AM
Do-Man:
The thread is closed, so will try this approach. If you want to address "necessity", you are either falling into a trap, or baiting one, which is it.
Aside from that, re "necessity", there may be little "necessity" for anything more than a single shot rifle or shotgun for hunting purposes (sporting use), and some would claim
that you do not need guns for "protection" as the police perform that function, laughter
is heard in the background.
By the way, years ago, I lived in California, and as I remember, the state displayed better sense and judgement then, than it does now.
Author
Topic: comment to Do-Man
alan
Senior Member
posted May 03, 2000 12:36 AM
Do-Man:
The thread is closed, so will try this approach. If you want to address "necessity", you are either falling into a trap, or baiting one, which is it.
Aside from that, re "necessity", there may be little "necessity" for anything more than a single shot rifle or shotgun for hunting purposes (sporting use), and some would claim
that you do not need guns for "protection" as the police perform that function, laughter
is heard in the background.
By the way, years ago, I lived in California, and as I remember, the state displayed better sense and judgement then, than it does now.
reply
Ok, for the guys (be it even a few) who seem to be content with the 10rnders as opposed to higher capacities....
How many of you guys overclock your computers and graphics cards????
Why do you do it?
Because you want to maximize your computers ability to maximum performance.
Thus, a full capacity clip is much better than a 9 or 10 cap.
Something to consider.....
One of my defender peices is a Taurus pt99. Maybe just a 9mm, but I like it.
I have a 10cap, 15cap, 17cap, and a 25cap.
Consider this:
a 15cap gives you 50% more shots in one clip. 1.5X
a 17cap gives you 70% more shots in one clip. 1.7X
a 20cap gives you 100% more shots in one clip. 2.0X!!! (2 clips in 1!)_
a 25cap gives you 150% more shots in one clip 2.5X!
a 29cap (I want) = 190% more shots in one clisp 2.9X! (nearly 3 clips in 1!)
Aside form the potentially boring math lesson here, If you want easy portability with less stuff and weight to carry, the full-caps do best. 10 years ago, 15-20 rnd clips (that fit flush with the butt of your pistol) was the standard. The mag, especially if its got alot of metal in it, will generally weigh more than the ammo fed into it. 10rnds or 15 rnds? Maybe an extra couple ounces of weight more.
I will eventally have all my mags for my pt99 and Glocks to have no less than 15 rnds.... and even a few 29+ rnd clips for anti-personell criminals.
But, I do agree with alot of you out there with one important point: ACCURACY should be the main focus. With good accuracy and shot placement, your full-cap mags will serve you even better.
Ok, for the guys (be it even a few) who seem to be content with the 10rnders as opposed to higher capacities....
How many of you guys overclock your computers and graphics cards????
Why do you do it?
Because you want to maximize your computers ability to maximum performance.
Thus, a full capacity clip is much better than a 9 or 10 cap.
Something to consider.....
One of my defender peices is a Taurus pt99. Maybe just a 9mm, but I like it.
I have a 10cap, 15cap, 17cap, and a 25cap.
Consider this:
a 15cap gives you 50% more shots in one clip. 1.5X
a 17cap gives you 70% more shots in one clip. 1.7X
a 20cap gives you 100% more shots in one clip. 2.0X!!! (2 clips in 1!)_
a 25cap gives you 150% more shots in one clip 2.5X!
a 29cap (I want) = 190% more shots in one clisp 2.9X! (nearly 3 clips in 1!)
Aside form the potentially boring math lesson here, If you want easy portability with less stuff and weight to carry, the full-caps do best. 10 years ago, 15-20 rnd clips (that fit flush with the butt of your pistol) was the standard. The mag, especially if its got alot of metal in it, will generally weigh more than the ammo fed into it. 10rnds or 15 rnds? Maybe an extra couple ounces of weight more.
I will eventally have all my mags for my pt99 and Glocks to have no less than 15 rnds.... and even a few 29+ rnd clips for anti-personell criminals.
But, I do agree with alot of you out there with one important point: ACCURACY should be the main focus. With good accuracy and shot placement, your full-cap mags will serve you even better.
jinx_the_cat
Inactive
Nobody needs to own more than 10 books.
Nobody needs to have more than 10 kids.
Nobody needs to make more than 10 times
$10,000. each year.
Nobody needs to go to church more than
10 times a month.
Nobody needs to have sex more often than
10 times a month.
Nobody needs to have more than 10 kids.
Nobody needs to make more than 10 times
$10,000. each year.
Nobody needs to go to church more than
10 times a month.
Nobody needs to have sex more often than
10 times a month.
Jamie Young
New member
Its all in John Ashcroft's hands now!!! We shall see
Byron Quick
Staff In Memoriam
I prefer to call them standard capacity magazines myself. And the ten rounders I call reduced capacity.
And it might be in John Ashcroft's hand for some people but not for me. The guns and accessories I have will either be kept or sold as I decide or else disposed of by some thug; jackbooted, sandaled, or barefoot; after they murder me to get them.
And it might be in John Ashcroft's hand for some people but not for me. The guns and accessories I have will either be kept or sold as I decide or else disposed of by some thug; jackbooted, sandaled, or barefoot; after they murder me to get them.
bullfrog99
New member
Do i need a high cap mags, no but i have them
Do i need a fast cars, no but i have them
Do i need all of my teeth, no but i have them
Do i need to coexist with mindless stupid yuppies who have no idea how the world works and spends there entire life reading the wall street journal and drinking there kiwi banana protein shake for breakfest because caffine is bad, all the while telling me what i dont' need, or more like it what they dont' want us dangerous "little people" (reguardless of social class they are better in there minds) to have---
---
---
NO, --- but i do because they do the occasional thing that is so stupid that it just craves to be watched, bless em all, it's like going to the Zoo to watch the otters swim around in there little fish tanks, they are just so silly that they are intertaining. like the last time i went hunting i came out of the woods early and found a 60 year old woman taking her keys to the side of my truck, and even when caught red handedly doing a crime she tried to say she was on the moral high ground because i was a slaughterer of helpless woodland animals and a few other more colorful metaphores. I did thank her and her lawyer for my new paint job though, as i said--- entertaining~!
Do i need a fast cars, no but i have them
Do i need all of my teeth, no but i have them
Do i need to coexist with mindless stupid yuppies who have no idea how the world works and spends there entire life reading the wall street journal and drinking there kiwi banana protein shake for breakfest because caffine is bad, all the while telling me what i dont' need, or more like it what they dont' want us dangerous "little people" (reguardless of social class they are better in there minds) to have---
---
---
NO, --- but i do because they do the occasional thing that is so stupid that it just craves to be watched, bless em all, it's like going to the Zoo to watch the otters swim around in there little fish tanks, they are just so silly that they are intertaining. like the last time i went hunting i came out of the woods early and found a 60 year old woman taking her keys to the side of my truck, and even when caught red handedly doing a crime she tried to say she was on the moral high ground because i was a slaughterer of helpless woodland animals and a few other more colorful metaphores. I did thank her and her lawyer for my new paint job though, as i said--- entertaining~!
Are full capacity mags really necessary?
Hell yes!
If your talking in regard to self defense than you would be crazy to limit yourself to a ten round magazine if you didn't have to. Its only your life,and the lives of your loved ones,thats all. If your talking for hunting or plinking who cares.
Just ask yourself why police use them? They have them so that they can respond to the home invasion robbery at your house,but only police need full capacity magazines.
Hell yes!
If your talking in regard to self defense than you would be crazy to limit yourself to a ten round magazine if you didn't have to. Its only your life,and the lives of your loved ones,thats all. If your talking for hunting or plinking who cares.
Just ask yourself why police use them? They have them so that they can respond to the home invasion robbery at your house,but only police need full capacity magazines.