Are hand loads for self defense a no no?

M

m&p45acp10+1

New member
I can remmber a few years ago reading tha hand loads for self defense are a very bad idea. I remember reading that an attorney in a civil suit can make a persont that used a hand load out to look like an evil mad scientist, concocting the perfect killer bullet to test out on the poor bad guy that due to his drug habbit and prision record could not find work and was just scavaging your house for some things to trade for drugs, and you and your evil self used your killer home made death bullets to kill or severly maim this poor misunderstood burglar.
For some strange reason I can comprehend that to a point. There are sue happy states no doubt about it. However what about the self defense loads. Would an attorney bring it to the attentoin of the court that one was using the most powerful and lethal bullets that they could get ahold of?
Personaly I load my cary weapon with corbons. I am not too worried about lawsuits in a kill or be killed situation. Also I am fortuante enough to live in a state that has clear laws regarding civil suits in cases of deadly force being used. If one is found to have acted in clear case self defense that no civil suits could be filed against them.
Just want to know what you folks think.
P.S. I think it is a sad time in history when someone can be sued for defending themselves or a 3rd party and be sued.
 
I say no. Others will say yes. It's the age old argument the same as open carry vs concealed carry and one in the chamber vs not.

Going to pop the popcorn now, here comes the show. By the way, every gun board I frequent already has a handfull of threads on this.
 
Couple of things to remember:

1) You have to be alive to be sued. It's better to have a gun, protect yourself, be alive, and take a chance of being sued; than to not have a gun at all and take a chance at being dead.

2) The largest percentage/majority of lawyers do NOT care about the truth. Their purpose in life is to DISTORT the truth to make the position appear favorable in their client's case. If a defendant and his/her lawyer was to plead guilty for something, but still request a trial so that they can give evidence/proof of extenuating circumstances which could warrant a reduced/no sentence; then I could live with that. But instead; most defendants and their lawyers will fight to try and prove that the defendant is somehow actually a victim. Whether a victim of society or their family. That is a load of Horsecrap.

Now; all that aside. I suggest AGAINST using handloads for home/self defense. Not because of liability. Screw the lawyers. The reason I suggest against it is because Between the component companies such as Hornady, Nosler, CCI, etc.... and the ammunition manufacturers like Remington, Federal, Winchester, etc..., they have a lot more money, manpower, and better high end equipment to put into Quality Assurance. I don't care how good your RCBS, Lee, etc... is; when your life is possibly on the line, I suggest trusting commercial manufacture ammunition. If police, military, fbi, etc... trust them; so should you. If I'm going to shave my beard off, I would rather trust schick or gillette over making my own razor blades. I know we have the tools for good quality handloads; but for self defense, I put more trust in the ammunition manufacturer than myself and the individual components. I reload a lot, and I remember one year loading a nice box of 7mm magnum nosler partitions for some elk hunting. I was about 200 yards away; chambered a round; took aim; pulled the trigger; and ............. CLICK!!! Luckily, I was far enough away that the elk didn't hear me curse. I chambered the next round and took the elk. Later, I experimented with the bad round. Apparently, it was a bad primer. After manually chambering it about 3-4 times, it finally fired. My point is; WHAT if that had been a self defense round???? Could that happen with factory ammo??? Definitely. But I trust their quality assurance better than my own.
 
Now; all that aside. I suggest AGAINST using handloads for home/self defense. Not because of liability. Screw the lawyers. The reason I suggest against it is because Between the component companies such as Hornady, Nosler, CCI, etc.... and the ammunition manufacturers like Remington, Federal, Winchester, etc..., they have a lot more money, manpower, and better high end equipment to put into Quality Assurance. I don't care how good your RCBS, Lee, etc... is; when your life is possibly on the line, I suggest trusting commercial manufacture ammunition. If police, military, fbi, etc... trust them; so should you. If I'm going to shave my beard off, I would rather trust schick or gillette over making my own razor blades. I know we have the tools for good quality handloads; but for self defense, I put more trust in the ammunition manufacturer than myself and the individual components. I reload a lot, and I remember one year loading a nice box of 7mm magnum nosler partitions for some elk hunting. I was about 200 yards away; chambered a round; took aim; pulled the trigger; and ............. CLICK!!! Luckily, I was far enough away that the elk didn't hear me curse. I chambered the next round and took the elk. Later, I experimented with the bad round. Apparently, it was a bad primer. After manually chambering it about 3-4 times, it finally fired. My point is; WHAT if that had been a self defense round???? Could that happen with factory ammo??? Definitely. But I trust their quality assurance better than my own.
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I have more faith in the reliability of my handloads,than I do commercial ammo,but I choose to carry storebought because of the premium bullets used that are not available to handloaders!
I trust my own driving more than any taxi drivers also!
 
roadrash said:
I have more faith in the reliability of my handloads,than I do commercial ammo,but I choose to carry storebought because of the premium bullets used that are not available to handloaders!
I trust my own driving more than any taxi drivers also!
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Pull the bullets from the commercial ammo and then load them into your handloads and load FMJ's into the primed and charged commercial cases for target practice. Lot of work, but these days everything is expensive.
 
Back 15-30 years ago, I thought I could load better ammo than the big-name manufacturers and I might have been right.

Those days are long gone. Every major ammo company makes excellent ammo, as long as we're talking about the premium self defense ammo. They've all done their R&D and upgraded their quality control.
No major company makes bad premium SD ammo. I'd carry any of it that was 100% dependable in my gun and shot to the POI I like.

I could load excellent ammo too, but why bother? I don't shoot all that many people, so the expense isn't a factor. I live in Florida, so a good shoot won't result in my choice of gun, ammo, holster, technique, etc. being a problem.

I carry a Glock 19 and load it with good 'ol 9PBLE. The gun wears TruGlo TFO sights. At 10' the bullet hits in the center of the front sight dot. At 50' it's at 12:00 on the dot. At 25 yds it's right on top of the front sight.

Why mess with performance like that?
 
I carry commercial ammo for ccw, when it is commonly available, for common calibers, .45acp, .357, 9mm, ect.
I carry handloads when ammo is more scarce, or when a commercial round is not available for my purpose. For instance when I carry my Alaskan. .44Magnum is too much for self defense against two legged varmits. Commercial .44Special is rather anemic. For the .44Special I load and carry my own.
I know that there is always a chance the round won't go BOOM. And that goes for commercial as well. I have been rolling my own for over twenty years, and have yet to have any misfires, or squibs, or malfunctions with anything that I have loaded.
I can't say the same for some of the commercial ammo I have shot.
 
Your own abilities aside,I know for a fact,I can handload ammo that is.
more reliable/more consistant/cheaper than any mass produced factory ammo!
 
RR; if you know for a "Fact", then you must be right. Go for it. I was simply making a comment. A comment that I am still confident after 30 years of reloading and STILL reloading.

Mark; you said: "I carry commercial ammo for ccw, when it is commonly available"
1st; when is quality self defense type ammo not available. Except for a .380, almost any ammo in SD is available. It's the plinking affordable stuff that is hard to find. But that aside; how many people are you shooting???? I initially shot an entire box of Golden Sabers; some hot, some cold, some rapid fire, etc... to determine exactly my POI at 10 and 50 feet; on each gun I own. Since I now know where those rounds are going to land, I don't think I shoot a box of quality SD ammo in an entire year. I shoot hundreds of rounds a month. Sometimes in a week. But I can't imagine shooting boxes of golden sabers, hydra-shoks, or Corbons just to plink.
 
I was under the impression that personal loading of rds was for target shooting only, not to saythat people don't load quality stuff but don't you think the government would be rolling their own if they could do it. or is my thinking flawed?

I mean why not leave the quality to the experts that have for decades or even centuries have researched this stuff.

again correct please if my thinking is out of wack. personally I wouldn't use Home Loaded Ammunision as SD but I'll use it as target
 
Although I generally use factory loads in defensive handguns, there are cases where there isn't a factory load I like where I'll handload one.

Case in point is 9mm Makarov. The best commercially available stuff is an anemic Hornady XTP that doesn't expand well and Georgia Arms' Gold Dots loaded to 1,000 fps. Well, I sometimes carry a CZ 82 with heavy springs which was designed for a hotter loaded 9x18 cartridge by the Czechs. Using the 90 gr. Gold Dot bullet, I was able to work up to 1,250 fps without any signs of overpressure in a load that shoots reliably and accurately from this specific gun. That load would not be advisable in a PA63 or P64, but works well in the vz. 82.

In most calibers though, factory loads can be had using excellent bullets which aren't available in component form to handloaders. (such as the Federal HST).

The liability is not a concern to me . . . just want the best load whether off the shelf or off my press.
 
I say no. Others will say yes. It's the age old argument
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and it will never end. Whether you buy ammo OTC or you roll your own, you could be in a world of financial doo-doo if you shoot someone.

IMO, it would be less likely for an attorney to convince a jury that you are a hardened killer if you defended yourself with a commercially available "personal defense" round.
 
There's much more than commercial vs store bought.

IIRC - your weapon is confiscated as evidence. If you just wound the guy you stand a greater chance of being sued and depending on where you place the shot and if they can determine if you were in real danger or fear for your life or families life, that will all depend on whether you will end up in the can.

There is a load of things to think about when using a firearm for SD. I am not trying to say you should not use one, I am just saying let's find out what the reality of actually using it is.

Unlike the movies they don't just dust you off and tell you, "good job" for killing or wounding the BG. You may end up not making it to work the next couple days.

Sorry to be a downer. While we are trying to get answers about the liability of reloaded rounds, let's get some of the other realities too.

As for the OP's question, I have no idea which would be better liability wise. I would rather be safe than sorry and I carry store bought rounds. I don't reload, but have many friends that do, and could get some custome loaded rounds if I wanted to. I just choose to carry HS in my .40 and Black Talons in my .45.

Just some food for thought.

Mel
 
"Are hand loads for self defense a no no?"

I'm not the least bit worried about being sued on what type of bullet I'm using in my weapon. I would be more concerned about whether the "hand load" was adequately made. (since I don't reload). 25 years ago I carried a Colt 1911 on duty (UC) and off duty; I got reloads from a retired County officer who made them for sale to friends. Quality control was # 1 with him. He made a fantastic .45 lead SWC, that I believe stepped out at 1025. He had a high tin to lead ratio, I believe; I couldn't scratch it with a nail, hardly. I wish he were alive today so I could get a box and I'd carry them CCW.
 
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If in doubt carry factory ammo.

I personally carry reloads. I believe I can defend them if necessary. I did get a ruling from the Wyoming Attorney General, He said the state dosn't care, they have no requirment for ammo in DF Carry.

Also Wyoming's Castle Doct. states, if the SD shooting is ligit, you CANNOT BE SUED CIVILY.

Still when I give CC classes, I recommend Factory ammo.

Like I said, IF IN DOUBT, CARRY FACTORY AMMO.
 
Another advantage of factory loads versus handloads, is that,premium factory defensive ammo use powder that contains flash suppressant ,along with bullets that are not available to handloaders.
 
I have read that the HLs can be a liability in court

However, these days, it can be hard to find commercial ammo. I am confident that my loads will work. I am not worried about litigation, because I figure if it is a justifiable UOF, and I am alive to tell the tale, I don't really care. That having been said, I usually load factory ammo for SD unless coming off the range etc.

If all you have is handloads, why not use them. Swap 'em out when you can, if you are worried about liability.

Shooter429
 
I was part of a seminar conducted at our local gun club recently which dealt with the use of lethal force. At this seminar were attorneys, a judge, the county district attorney and others. This specific question was addressed and they all said the same thing, it doesn't make any difference. In a legal self defense situation where lethal force is used the one thing that gets people in the worst position imaginable is making statements to the police with out an attorney being present. Of course in a civil suit the question of ammo use may be dredged up during a prosecution.
 
Well, considering I know I won't need more than 1 box (20-25 rds) of SD/HD ammo; I don't find it difficult to find. I know how it shoots in my gun and I made sure I had 1 box per gun. I don't plan on shooting 20 people. Actually, I don't "Plan" on shooting anyone if possible. So 1 box per gun is more than enough. I will continue shooting the rest of plinking with cheaper ammo.
 
Maybe I'm just....

Too paranoid, too anal, or too something but....

I spent a lot of time loading up 20 rds (2 mags worth) of pristine . 40 cal 200gr jhp's specifically for SD.
I also don't like taxis, or for me elevators etc. I like few circumstances I'm not in control of or at least a participating member.

So, with some of my recent experiences with factory ammo I have much more confidence in those 20 rds than anything anybody else factory or otherwise could produce for me.
 
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