Are firearms regulatable?

rod

New member
Are firearms really regulatable? It's a fundamental question with regard to gun control. Societies have attempted to place regulations on unregulatable products before and the result has been a disaster. Right now we are engaged in "war on drugs" which is looking more and more like an attempt to regulate the unregulatable ... the result is a handy excuse for one of the biggest assault on the rights of the citizens of this nation we have ever seen.

So-called <cite>modern</cite> cartridge firearms are 19th century technology. Almost all the refinements we see today in firearms, military or otherwise, have their immediate roots in designs from that century. What happens when you try to ban a device made of steel and wood requiring tolerances that are easily achieved by moderately priced modern milling machinery? What happens when Computer Numerically Controlled (CNC) metal working devices become more ubiquetous and cheaper than they already are? What will keep mass distributors of metal working tools (Sears, Black & Decker) from marketing 3 in 1 CNC metal working tools to average consumers at some point in the future? What will keep CNC-style automation from being extended to include automated-alignment, automated-tool selection and other setup procedures?

Now juxtapose this with the information revolution, in particular the Internet. Suppose some pro-gun engineers decide to design in-depth a rifle, several rifles, rifles and pistols whatever, create a website and put the design into the public domain. Then publish detailed blueprints, and CNC code for producing the parts. You can download the whole thing for free in a few minutes. OK so there's a disclaimer saying you have to have ATF permission to make these guns.

I know that such things exist in print now, but their reach is limited and from what I've seen their presentation and design leave a bit to be desired. Lets say someone designed a reliable high-quality assault rifle and published the designs electronically, then put up a chat board devoted to refining and troubleshooting the design. Now it's a First Amendment issue.

The fact of the matter is that the technology probably already exists to allow the average Joe with no machinist training to successfully to run a home automated machine shop with the capability of producing an assualt rifle. The technology would be expensive now and no one has really put out the effort to create a product with just that in mind, but I believe it is entirely possible.

In other words with regard to gun control technology is rapidly presenting the social engineers with a <cite> Fait Acompli </cite>.

Now add the last element. There are lots of angry folks in this and other nations who <strong> would </strong> do it, law or no law. Prohibition, The War on Drugs, Gun Control. They may all have in common the fact that they painfully point -out society's limited ability to control its citizens. More importantly perhaps it also points out how dependent today's idealistic social engineers are on <cite> managing </cite> (witholding) information from the public. This creates a situation where they are in direct conflict with the most fundamental issues of this or any Democracy: The right to know.

=rod=
 
rod, you hit the nail on the head. This is a point I often bring up when discussing gun control with people who know little about firearms. For example, during the Afghan war the Afghani gunsmiths, using hand tools, not power tools of any sort, were turning out AK-47 copies. Fully functional, yet due to their lack of heat treating and modern metallurgy these rifles were good for maybe a few hundred rounds.

To outlaw guns one must outlaw ideas. Therefore, there is no difference between a gun-banner and a book burner.

------------------
"All I ask is equal freedom. When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow."



[This message has been edited by Ipecac (edited July 05, 1999).]
 
That's a good point Ipecac. The Afganis not only did that during the war but they are still in business today, and I think they understand how to heat-treat metal better now.

There is a village in the Phillipines where the villagers all make firearms. The only power tool they have is a drill press. The weapons are of such quality that the Phillipine police use them. Japanese gangsters used to acquire there weapons here, now they've taken to just importing the villagers to make the weapons in Japan.

Closer to home however there was a group in Phoenix Arizona call the Viper Militia that were arrested a couple of years ago. The leader of the group had a little metal working shop in his garage and apparently was and accomplished machinist. He was turning out full auto assualt rifles for his members using only hardware store parts.

I'll never forget watching the interview of the ATF agent in front of the Viper leader's house. The ATF guy was clearly impressed and astounded by the quality of the weapons being produced by this group and said so. Funny how this aspect of that who fiasco got buried so quickly ... almost like someone realized that if they made too much of how easy it was to simply produce assault rifles using commonly available parts, the whole gun control argument might evaporate...

=rod=

[This message has been edited by rod (edited July 05, 1999).]
 
there were several weapons designed in ww 2
solely for their ease of production. the ar 18 is a simplified version of the m16 designed to be pruduced by stamping and welding with only the bolt needing machining.
street gangs and prison inmates have been producing working firearms from non traditional materials for years.
as a practical point, you dont need a machine shop. just material and patience.

NIL ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
 
The U.S. dumped literally hundreds of thousands of single shot, cheap-ass handguns into the occupied countries of Europe in WWII. I think each gun cost about a buck. They were purposely made easy to copy, sort of a working blueprint.

Funny how the gubment hands out free guns when they want help. And here I thought that privately held firearms could never stop and army...

------------------
"All I ask is equal freedom. When it is denied, as it always is, I take it anyhow."
 
As I seem to remember the Sten Gun of WWII was thought up because it was quick and easy to produce in numbers, inexpensive, and about as reliable as any stamped and welded weapon of it's time.

The designs are out there for any to use. All that's needed is the will and inducement. Like liquor in the 20's or cocaine today, the money and power will go to those that are ingenious enough to provide what it is that the public is willing to pay for!

After all look at what bootlegging did for old man Joe Kennedy, to say nothing of the Rodham fanily.

------------------
If everyone thought like me, I'd be a damn fool to think any different!
 
Back
Top