are competing cartridges actually a good thing?

J

jason41987

New member
im not so sure.. i mean, for example, 6.5 creedmor, 260 remington, 6.5x47, and im sure there are a few others.. and it seems every day theres a new cartridge out which is the same answer to a previously answered question... is all this competition a good thing?... does it help or hurt us?

if someone was looking to switch to a new cartridge.. it probably hurts all producers of competing cartridges such as those ive mentioned for the fact that itll turn people away from all of them rather than lead them to one.. its hard to say which one of these is truly dominant, which will reign supreme in the end, and i dont know about you guys, but id like to know a cartridge has a future before buying into it

so.. it just seems to me to design a cartridge that has the same exact features and performance as another is just going to hurt both in the end... i could be wrong though, but id like to hear your opinions on it
 
I honestly don't like cartridges like that for several reasons. One, they are new and hard to find. They are expensive, and there is not guarantee that I'll be able to find it 20 years from now.

I do have a Swiss k31 and I'm honestly worried that I wont be able to get ammo for it in the future, although right now things look ok as far as that goes.
 
i dont think youre at much risk with a K31.. a lot of them were made, and a lot of people own them, theyre getting to be more popular.. youll always be able to find ammo for those because a large number of rifles chambered for it exists

however.. these new cartridges i speak of dont really have a large number of rifles made for it, theyre trying to convince us to convert to one of these, and theres just too much of a risk of NOT being able to find ammo for them in a few years that i think it might turn some people away... in the case of the 6.5 cartridges i mentioned earlier, they can be resized and handloaded from .308 brass... but thats just one example, there seems to be more and more each year
 
Competition is what keeps the market alive. It drives innovation. If we did not have competition we would all be shooting 45-70 or 30-30. Or lets take it back further and we all have muzzle loaders. I am glad we have competitive companies giving each of us what we want, not a generic, one gun fits all.
On the other hand it can get confusing for new shooters, win mag, wsm, wssm, but it will bring about the next 30-06 type of cartridge against which all others will be measured.
 
theres a difference between competition and innovation, these companies arent competing to make something better, theyre taking a side-step
 
Without competition the only reason to come up with something new and innovative is market demand. If there is demand, there will also be competition. They are intertwined. One comes with the other. Some cartridges are in a niche market like benchrest competition, some are designed for mass marketing. All of them are here because someone wanted something different than what was available. Just because we don't use it is no reason to not have it available.
 
A while back on one of the gun sites, a gentleman reported that he had developed a (yep!) new cartridge. With as much breathlessness as can be gotten into typing, he reported the statistics of his great new wildcat. Several of us pointed out that the figures were neither impressive nor new and that at least a half dozen existing cartridges gave the same or better results in basically the same envelope. The inventor chastised us, rejected adverse comments, and stated that he would continue to develop and promote his idea.

If his promotion campaign works out, we might soon see a new cartridge on the market, giving the gunzine writers an article or three and creating chatter on the gun sites. It still will be useless and won't do anything an existing cartridge won't do, but it will be something NEW!!

Jim
 
im starting to like the ballistics of a 6.5mm cartridge.. comparing bullets of the same length/diameter ratio, the 6.5mm bullets seem to have better ballistic coefficiencies than a .308, 6.8, or 6mm cartridge... so i could understand someone wanting to neck a .308 down to this... but do we really need 5 of them?... and why wont i buy either of them?... im waiting to see how many die off and disappear... and the more they keep coming out with, the longer it takes for that to happen, and the least like myself, or others like me will be to get in on that market at all
 
...but do we really need 5 of them?... and why wont i buy either of them?... im waiting to see how many die off and disappear... and the more they keep coming out with, the longer it takes for that to happen, and the least like myself, or others like me will be to get in on that market at all
Click to expand...

You can wait your entire life for some relevation that a caliber is here to stay. If you like a caliber, buy a rifle/handgun in it and don't worry about it.

Some are waiting for the 17HMR or 22 WMR to fail. Neither will.

I like the 480 Ruger cartridge (.47 caliber). It never had a big following even when it was the new big boomer revolver cartridge on the block. I am in the process of buying another revolver in that caliber. Do you think I am worried about getting ammunition? If necessary, I'll reload it and I probably should anyway. Get what appeals to you.

Added: I am a 41 mag shooter. Folks have been talking about its demise since 1964 and they will continue to talk about it for the next 50 years.
 
Last edited:
So jason41987, IIRC you wanted to wildcat a 6.5 x39 two days ago. Today you won't buy a 6.5 until you are sure it won't die off. Sounds like opposite ends of the spectrum in less than a week. If you want a 6.5 that won't die get a 260. If you want it in an auto get a 6.5 grendel. If you can't decide ask some more questions that are caliber specific (you will get better info if you ask about performance of one version ). If you are stirring the pot :p
 
Sounds like opposite ends of the spectrum in less than a week.

"So jason41987, you wanted to wildcat a 6.5 x39 two days ago. Today you won't buy a 6.5 until you are sure it won't die off. Sounds like opposite ends of the spectrum in less than a week."

And a few weeks before that he was THE self-proclaimed 6.8 SPC expert announcing the superiority of the 6.8 over the 6.5 Grendel... Then suddenly all this interest in the superiority of 6.5mm bullets/cartridges!!!

Which end are you talking out of now?:rolleyes:

Or, have you finally done your own research and stopped spouting the internet BS of others?

T.
 
A lot of people have ideas of how to improve whatever it is being talked about. That is how we got so many brands of cars, TVs, DVRs, phones, etc, and how we get so many moronic "Ford vs Chevy" types of threads.

And then, there are people who invent new and interesting ways to solve a problem that doesn't exist, which is how we get the 6.5 Grendel vs 6.5 Creedmore vs 6.8 SPC debates.

Get used to it. It is called a "free enterprise system", and anyone can claim and sell virtually anything as "best" or "new and improved". Unless the buying public proves them wrong, they will have a market presence. Once customers disappear, so does the product. Anyone remember the 7mm RSAUM? How about the .30 TC? The list goes on and on.
 
I have a couple cartridges that fall into this class...

the one that makes me really mad right now, is the 17 Fireball... Remington standardized this cartridge like 2 years ago, didn't put anything into promoting the cartridge ( IMO, it's one of the best balanced of the 17's ) & a year later, you could not hardly get cases... I built a custom rifle around this cartridge, & my brass order has been pushed back 5-6 times, with the latest ( from Midway ) now pushed back until December ( about a year from my 1st order date )

I also have an early 17 Hornet wildcat, & was happy to see Hornady standardize that cartridge ( yes I picked up brass right away )

I think the competition of almost identical cartridges is bad... no one gets enough sales, they don't meet projections, & die with little more than a wimper, shortly after they were introduced... often these were good cartridges, just if they can't garner enough of the projected market share, they are gone
 
i dont mind cartridges that are made from common, pre-existing brass, and use common bullet diameters... so i guess the 6.5 creedmor/260 remington/6.5x47 doesnt both me as much for the fact i believe all of these could be made with .30-06/.308 brass, and all use common bullets.. so that doesnt bother me as much as it seemed in my initial statement using it as an example.. all you need for these is a resizing die and youre set for life on brass

as for the .17 issue you mentioned, i dont have one of those personally, but can they be resized from pre-existing cases?.. i believe it uses .223 remington brass, so couldnt you get a box of .223 brass and resize and reshape to .17 fireball?
 
There was a time when 204 rifles were for sale on all the store racks. I was convinced that the cartridge wouldn't survive. I was obviously way wrong. The 260 was pronounced dead in several magazines, but it got new life as a long range cartridge. The 220 Swift was pronounced dead also when slightly lesser cartridges (225 Win and 22-250) came along. We have access to many more cartridges than are really needed, but free enterprise and competition will usually and eventually result in the right answer or best choice or choices. If all we had were 5 or 6 cartridges to choose among, what would we argue about. And speaking of arguing, I'm sure somebody is going to take exception to my cheap shot on the 22-250. :D
 
17 Hornets are a pain, as they require fire forming ( I've made plenty of those before Hornady came out with "their" cartridge... which is slightly different, but chambers & fire forms in my gun ) I've not tried resizing the 221 Fireball to 17... I'm sure it's not that bad, but I have a 221 Fireball Contender barrel, so I load for that cartridge... I go out of my way to have the correct headstamps when ever possible, just to help keep things straight...

BTW... what was the cartridge that Silver State Armory was pushing a while back ??? I got a Contender barrel in that cartridge, & I haven't heard anything about it for so long ( & not pulled it out & shot it lately ), that I don't even remember what it was called... it was going to be "the new hot cartridge" for the AR's, but it's chamber pressure was right in line for the Contender...
 
depends alot on the cartridge parent case, thickness & etc.

for the Hornet, the brass is so thin, it doesn't need much pressure ( 1/2 to 3/4 loads are plenty )... cases I've done for the Contender with 223 cases need more... the bore & shoulder differences from the parent case can make the difference... I'm sure some of the .308 based cases probably only reduce the load by 10% or so for fire forming
 
Well, actually, the cartridges aren't really competing unless you can only buy them from a single manufacturer. That's true in some cases, generally referred to as proprietary cartridges. Otherwise, it's just another choice from a big company that makes a lot of different cartridges, usually in lots of different loads. Ruger competes with Marlin and Savage, true, but does the .308 compete with the .30-06? For that matter, does Ruger compete with Weatherby or Sako?
 
using my examples from earlier.. im not sure the creedmor and 6.5x47 compete for finances.. but im sure they compete for pride, and winners bragging-rights
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top