Are certain cartridges "inherently accurate"?

T

travis0127

New member
I've been reading things like:

"The .308 is inherently more accurate than the .30-06"

Is this true?

How can it be? Isn't the rifle responsible for accuracy? The quality of the barrel/chamber/action?

How can the case affect the accuracy if they are otherwise the same (except for the amount of powder)?
 
Yes.


Things that make a cartridge more accurate:

1) Short powder columns
2) Positive, repeatable headspace (read rimmed cartridges or sharp shoulders)
3) Proportionately small primers
4) Moderate pressures
5) Larger bores (easier to make more consistant bullets)
6) Smaller bores (only in the respect that they have stiffer barrels all things being equal)

Understand that some of these factors cancel each other out. Some factors aren't really that important either like bullet diameter. All things being equal, the most accurate cartridge will be: Short, fat, medium bored, small primered, and moderate pressure. Think of really accurate rounds like the 6mm PPC and 22-250. BTW, cartridge accuracy will only give you about 1/4 MOA improvement IMHO if all other things are the same.
 
I have a Sako Varmint in 6PPC that will make a believer out of anyone. Shoots way better than I can.

NJW in AZ
 
Could one of you benchrest types post a picture of a 6mm PPC or 22PPC round here? These two rounds pretty much set the standard of accuracy and it would be neat to show others how relatively squat these cases are in comparison to a .223.
 
I would appreciate some input, here. I am looking for a cartridge that is about the same exterior dimensions as a 7.62x39mm. Desired performance characteristics are on the order of the 7x30 Waters/.257 Roberts/.250 Ackley Improved Savage- can someone here tell me what those cartridges exterior dimensions are, compared to the .30 Russian Short?
 
Wow! Neat looking little round.

Hm...actually about perfect performance (did a search on Dogpile for 7mm BR). Wonder how this bullet, necked to .257, would do from a 19" bl?
 
The PPC family will make a believer out a person, that's for sure! But that doesn't rule out the accuracy potential of other more conventionally-shaped cartridges, though. Though wildcats, the 6.5-06, 6mm-.284, 6.5-.284, .308 Baer, .30-8mm Remington Magnum, all have done remarkably well when chambered in quality barrels, and their match scores out to 1000 yards show it. The .300 Winchester Magnum, .260 Remington, .308 Winchester, 6mm Remington, .22-250, and .220 Swift are factory offerings that also have wonderful accuracy potential in the right gun. (I'm sure I've missed a lot, but it's not an intentional exclusion) I always had a hard time believing that a .308 Winchester, pushing a 168gr Sierra MatchKing at 2800fps through, say, a Krieger barrel, would be any more accurate than a .30-06 pushing the same bullet at the same velocity through the same barrel. But there are folks who swear by it. Now, Hank, about that 7mm Bench Rest AR, I've been sitting on a pre-ban Olympic Arms lower to make a 6PPC AR-15, glad to see I'm not that silly to think of the idea! I'll have to email you and ask how well the system works...
 
Geweher98, It will only feed Ballistic Tips and match hollow point ammo! I read the accuracy comparison between the 308 and 3006 in a reloading manual years ago. The USN match team held on to their 3006 Garands for a long time but they converted them to 308 and shot those for years. Must have been some reason for this.
 
Hey, I love Ballistic Tips, I run the 120 grainers in my 6.5-06 at 3200fps, and they are simply awesome, excellent terminal performance, 1/4MOA accuracy, and boy, do they have legs! They have cleaner ballistics than even the Sierra MatchKings. That's encouraging to me, to say the least.

I have a Navy Trophy Garand in .30-06, and shot High Power with a retired Navy captain, who had his NM Garand rechambered to .308. He pointed out to me that the availability of issue match ammo in later years was less dicey in the 7.62MM NATO, vs. the .30-06. I know in the Honor Guard detachment at my last base of assignment, it was getting to be fun just finding blank .30-06 ammo for the Air Force Honor Guard Garands...
 
Sorry for using this forum for a personal message, but my e-mail is seriously "Tango Uniform"

Travis, I got your email, but can't respond. You have my home number still, right? Give me a call there this weekend or give me your number over email.
 
Spectre, the PPC family is based on the 220 Russian cartridge, which is itself a variation of the 7.62x39. Therefore, the 6mm PPC approximates the 7.62x39 in terms of dimensions.

I think that I should go back to my previous statment and tell you that cartridge selection is a very small portion of the battle. Unless you are building an all-up target or benchrest rifle, cartridge selection won't do you that much good. In fact, you might end up spending more on ammunition and scratching your head when you don't get one-hole groups at 1000 yards.

I'll give you an example. Let's say there are two identical rifles with all factors controlled to make the rifle perfectly accurate. One is chambered for the .223 and the other for 22 PPC. The optimum load in the PPC might pring .350" groups while the .223 would pring .425" groups. We can sit down all day over a six-pack and discuss neck tension, uniform neck thickness, case size, etc. In the end, it don't ammount to much more than a smackerl of accuracy.

Please don't get me wrong, there are loads of people that will jump on that and run with it. I'll bow to the superiority of the PPC over my favorite, the 22-250. For practical purposes, however, the discussion is merely academic. And in the end, My 300 WM will still have lethal velocity when the PPC's hit the dirt.
 
Agreed. But the question was purely about accuracy, not accurate power at long distances. It that was the topic, I would have voted for my 300 WM.

NJW in AZ
 
Why not the .338 instead of a 300 WM or other souped up cartridge? Sierra has some great boat tails with great ballistic coefficients for the .338.
 
Thanks, badgerarms. Spartacus and I are getting .300 WM PSS's* for the 1000 yard shots. I would also like a light rifle for shots on deer-sized game to 400 yards. From what I've seen, the 6mm PPC is just a little underpowered.


*Incidentally, Spart is going all-out, having tricked his with Badger Arms rail and mounts, and installed a Night Force scope. I don't think I'll get a scope that costs more than my platform! :)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bk40:
as the saying goes-

short and fat is where its at

with regards to accuracy[/quote]

If that is 100% true, then what happened to the 7.62X39 ? ;)
 
Ask the guys who run the 7.62x29 in their SSK/Contenders and MOA Maximum pistols, as well as Ruger M77's, Interarms Mini-Mausers, and scores of small-ring and large-ring Mausers and Lee-Enfields rebarreled for it. Don't forget that it's awfully hard to get bughole group accuracy from surplus military ammo, too, it just wasn't designed for that.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nukem:
If that is 100% true, then what happened to the 7.62X39 ? ;)
[/quote]

Case taper makes for dubious headspacing... Large primer. Poor rifles chambered for it. A good bolt-action with proper bullet match -- .308 for .308 bore and .311 for .311 bores -- and you've got a contender. I'm going out on a limb here, but I do think that bullets in the 2500-2800 fps range are most accurate.

As far as the velocity issue, YES IT DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN ACCURACY. Let's say we have a rifle with optimum characteristics that shoots a 3" diameter 1000 grain bullet at 50fps. Might be damned accurate at 25 feet... get it?
 
Short and chubby bullets at moderate velocities? That seems to be over-simplified, just take a look at the 6.5x55: long, slender 156gr. bullet travelling slow with a 8 1/2 twist... and hard to beat accuracy (ask the soviets what they tought of the swedes in Finland!)
 
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