Are carbine always pistol calibers?

M

munir

New member
I'm not sure which group to ask this question in.

It looks to me, looking through advertisements in magazines, that "carbine" means "rifle firing pistol round" (i.e., 45 ACP carbine). But when I look it up on the net, a definition says:

A "carbine" is a lightweight shoulder firearm with a barrel under 16 inches in length.

My next question is, "What's the point?" I thought that, in general rifle rounds were much more powerful than pistol rounds of the same caliber. If a pistol round (.45 ACP, .44 magnum) is fired out of a rifle barrel, does it attain rifle velocity and power? Is the use of a carbine mainly for accuracy puposes? To simplify ammunition supply?

Thanks,

munir

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ahlan wa sahlan
PCV Yemen 1984-86
 
Technically a carbine is a relatively short rifle. A pistol caliber carbine would be a carbine chambered for a pistol cartridge.

Part of the problem is there is no real clear "dictionary" to define terms.

A pistol cartridge fired out of a carbine barrel will usually show some gain in velocity because barrel is longer and thus more powder is burned inside barrel. But a 9mm or 45 acp would probably start slowing down in a 22-26" barrel [typical rifle length] because powder would be mostly burned and friction would be slowing the bullet down...this is why you don't see many pistol caliber rifles [except for 44 mags perhaps].

A true rifle cartridge will be more powerful than a true handgun cartridge. But shoulder arms/long arms [whatever term you like to use] are easier to shoot accuratly and also easier to shoot quickly with precision because you can brace the long arm against your shoulder.

Does that help?
 
Thanks,

Munir

[Removed unnecessary repeat of post above.]


[This message has been edited by Mal H (edited August 08, 2000).]
 
Generally, a carbine, as others have noted, is a short, light, rifle.

There are carbine versions of the M16 rifle firing the .223 round. The Mini-14 by Ruger, which fires the .223 or 7.62x39, is also more correctly classified as a carbine.

Also, there is the military's M1 carbine, in .30 cal. This round has been tried in handguns, but it's not been particularly successful there. Too powerful, too much muzzle blast.

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Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Two little picky things. Shoulder weapons w/ barrels less than 16" for a rifle or 18" for a shotgun are NFA weapons, and have to be registered and taxed as such. If someone says "carbine" with no other description or qualifier, they're usually referring to the .30 cal M1 carbine of WWII/Korea fame. There were more of those made than any other weapon issued to US troops, between 4 and 5 million.
 
A Ruger Mini 14 and a Ruger 10/22 are considered carbines.
 
Oddly enough, it has been found that in many pistol calibers, heavier bullets for that given caliber would often exit even a 16" barrel slower than the same in a 5" barrel!

This is because a pistol cartridge's powder usually burns in 5-10 inches or so. With large, heavy bullets for a given caliber, the friction of the extra barrel length overcomes any speed gains created by giving the burning powder more room to work.

Shooting Times did a test of some 9mm loads in a Marlin Camp Carbine found that 115 and 124 grains sped up about 12 annd 20 percent respectively. The 147 grain projectile, however, slowed down.

Civillian "carbines" are limited to a minimum length of 16". The Ruger PC9/40 and Marlin Camp Carbine stayed just over this length. Combat "carbines" were and are often as short as 10 inches!

Carbines can be either pistol or rifle caliber and some can even blur the line between a "carbine" and a submachine gun (an example of this would be an AKSU-74). The venerable M1 carbine in caliber .30 Carbine used a specliayy designed cartridge that was essentially a scaled-up pistol round.

I recommend the following books for more info:

"Military Small Arms" Ian Hogg and John Weeks
"Small Arms of the World" Edward Clinton Ezell
 
I reckon the Simonov SKS 7.62mmX39 mm and a Ruger Rem .44 Mag S/A are also carbines, as is the M-Nagant M'44(Chicom M56)... even with side-mounted bayonet!

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If we shooting sportspersons don't hang together... we will all hang separately !
Never knock another's different shooting interest or discipline...REMEMBER we are all but leaves on the same tree of freedom.
 
Hard Hitting carbines:
Winchester M100, caliber .308,
Ruger Carbine Model?, caliber .44 mag

what about that?
 
I consider my short action .350 Rem Mag a "carbine". Its 6" shorter and a couple of pounds lighter than a standard hunting rifle.
Any rifle shorter than a "standard" one is defined by Websters as a carbine.




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Keith
The Bears and Bear Maulings Page: members.xoom.com/keithrogan
 
Do you mean like semi-auto carbines? Because the old Winchester '94 .30-30 is a carbine. The only pistols I have seen in .30-30 are TC's. What about .30 Carbine, the round. Thats a carbine round, and AMT made a pistol chambered for it.
 
That word has always confused me some too. :confused: My 10/22 has the word Carbine stamped on its barrel. Whatever. It has the stock that fits up against my shoulder so I call it a rifle! :D

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...let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by paltik:
Hard Hitting carbines:
Winchester M100, caliber .308,
Ruger Carbine Model?, caliber .44 mag

what about that?[/quote]

One thing I'm not very clear on. I thought that although the .44 mag is a very powerful handgun cartridge, it's not a very powerful as far as rifles go. Is this correct?

Thanks,

munir
 
You are correct, .44Mag is at the bottom of the well when you're talking rifle calibers. Most real rifle calibers will have multiples of the muzzle energy of a .44Mag round, and they'll generally retain that energy much farther downrange.
 
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