Archery vs. Gun

R

RamSlammer

New member
Call me behind the times, but I just don't get the proliferation of bow hunting versus modern gun. In my state most WMA's are bow only with modern gun being relegated to occasional permit hunts, youth hunts and private land.

Admittedly, I have taken up the bow from necessity more than anything else, but I still question the reasoning. For a hunter looking to put meat on the table (whitetail deer mostly) I feel it's discriminatory. Not all of us want or need to take part in scent elimination clothing, $1,000 bows, designer deer scents, fake antlers to rattle, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

Not to mention the ill shot deer that some bowhunters will try to take at too long a range that turn up dead a day later (if they're lucky). I have ran across 3 decomposed half eaten carcasses this season with arrows in them.

Used to be a guy could take a 30-30 into the woods most anywhere and hunt deer cleanly without all the muss and fuss these new age "purist" hunters who never set a foot in the woods except 3 weekends a year demand.
 
Ram,

States use bow seasons for various reasons, and it's up to you to participate or not.

Arizona has a few bow seasons that are far longer than the firearms seasons. Tags can be purchased over-the-counter, rather than having to apply for a lottery system for a chance at a firearms tag with a season a few days long.

I've shot deer with a bow, as well as other big game animals, and never used scents, rattleing horns, and a tree stand only once. Those things can help, but rest assured they aren't required to hunt and be successful at it.

As far as wounded deer dying unrecovered, bows are just as lethal as a rifle is, but at closer range. Make a bad shot with either, and you're likely to get the same result. Responsible and ethical hunters will pass on a shot that they aren't qualified to make, but each shooter will have different skill levels.

The world is a changing place, and the "good ol' days" of hunting aren't likely to come back. My advice is to get used to it, and take advantage of the opportunities you have.

Daryl
 
Daryl,
You are entirely right about bows being as lethal. I think though that more hunters stretch their range than would happen with a gun. Also, yes, states mandate bow for "various reasons". I guess my question is just what are those reasons and are they really valid?

For instance, if hunter saturation is causing a safety issue, mandate tree stand hunting with downward angled shooting. Or how about handgun hunting? Buckshot only?

Call me paranoid, but if gun opponents can make a reasonable argument that all U.S. hunters need are bows and bird shot then we could be assisting the degradation of our 2A rights.
 
Ram,

Hmmm not too sure on how your state works bow season, but there has always been bow seasons in the states I've hunted [NJ and NY]. Its not always "purists" who hunt those, as honestly, I don't consider a hyped up compound bow with carbon arrows very purist. A lot of bowhunters are there for the same reason, to put meat on the table.
Bowhunting is a different beast than firearms hunting. Most shots are under 30yds, and require a lot of stalking and patience. The reason the two seasons are seperate, is, at least I've found, that states will cut bowhunters slack on the orange requirements. This is due to less hunters in the field and the effective range being much less than firearms.
As for wounded animals left behind, its sad, and its a reflection on society today. The hunter failed to do his/her job and track down the animal. Firearms hunters do this as well, its just a bit harder to see compared to an arrow sitting out the side of animal.
As far as all the new fangled stuff...that, in the end, is companies pushing new products on people. Bowhunters have been around a lot longer than scent elimination clothes, etc etc., just the same as rifle hunters who have to be able to shoot 400yds from their popup blind whilst using a grunt tube.
 
Bows are worse than golf clubs when it comes to hunters thinking they have to have the latest greatest. You can get a good used bow for a couple of hundred bucks. The one I use is probably 15 years old, I can't stand this new short stuff. I've never had any scent free cloths, but a tree stand will greatly improve your chances.

The bow season is much more peaceful and you will see more game. If they turned it in to rifle season there would be a stampede of orange in to the woods and the deer would dig a hole and climb in the same as they do when the general season starts now.
 
RamSlammer, you have to remember and admit that the vast majority of hunters in the U.S. do NOT hunt primarily to provide for the family. Yes many eat the meat of their kill, but that meat merely supplements the normal diet. Most people hunt purely for sport.

Bow hunting takes far more skill than a rifle hunt (yep, I said it). Call me an idiot, but taking a 300 yard shot at an animal who couldn't notice you if you were jumping up and down and flailing your arms just ain't hunting in my book.....it's target practice. As a result, bow season means far less people to worry about in the woods, and unlike gun season you won't have to worry about other peoples' shots spooking your deer.

I completely agree that the people who make poor shots and end up leaving wounded or dying deer are scum. But those people would be doing that regardless of what weapon they're hunting with. IMO at least with the bow they are confined to a significantly shorter distance within which to be stupid. Give the same person a shotgun or rifle and they'd be injuring far more deer and still failing to bring meat home.....believe me, I've seen it.

With dedicated bow season only being a three week period (at least here), what's the big deal in waiting an extra 3 weeks to hunt in your preferred way?
 
I don't have a problem at all with bow hunting - I own one and enjoy it . . . sometimes. Most of the state owned WMA's in my area are bow only - all season long, that leaves gun hunters without access to private land shut out and that's what I feel is wrong. Yes, bow hunting is more difficult, requires more skill, etc. . . . that's not the point.
 
I think the reason that many WMA's are going to bow only is the safety issue. With firearms, they really have to be concerned about hunter density on public land. That leaves the WMA management potentially liable if they allow in too many hunters and somebody gets shot. With bows only, they don't have to worry about miscalulating the number of hunters allowed at any given time.
 
new age "purist" hunters who never set a foot in the woods except 3 weekends a year demand.
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I hunt both. I would say I have seen a lot more guys with rifles that the "3 weekends a year" would apply to than bowhunters.

The fix is actually very simple, but may seem draconian to people that are used to hunting multiple seasons - make people chose how they are going to hunt. In Oregon you get basically one tag for deer, one tag for elk and it is weapon specific.

What this does (in theory, at least) is keep me from running out and buying a bow (and a muzzleloader) just to get more hunting days. I usually bow hunt elk, so I make sure I am good enough with my bow to do the job - else I would just rifle hunt elk.

The weapon used does not define an ethical hunter.

The arguement about cost is moot. You can spend as much or as little as you want, just like gun hunters.
 
Personally I would never take a bow hunting, unless I knew for sure I would see a deer no farther away than 15 yrds. I don't go hunting just to bird watch.

I'm not a rich hunter, I can't afford to let my tags go unfilled, just because it is more sporting.

I have nothing against bows like the original poster, but it seems like bows are for the experience, and rifles are for business.
 
I think the reason that many WMA's are going to bow only is the safety issue. With firearms, they really have to be concerned about hunter density on public land. That leaves the WMA management potentially liable if they allow in too many hunters and somebody gets shot. With bows only, they don't have to worry about miscalulating the number of hunters allowed at any given time.
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That's a valid reason for sure, but why wouldn't allowing shotguns limited to buckshot achieve the same supposed level of safety?
 
I don't feel that safety is the reason at all. I think that over hunting has caused the WMA's to become archery only. A particular WMA can have so many deer. And around here, Cabot area, There are 4-5 WMA's within 30 minutes. But there are far more hunters than deer in those WMA's. With each hunter being able to take 3 deer up here, they would be eradicated in one season.

It's a proven fact that a group of gun hunters can kill more deer than a group of archery hunters. So if they had the WMA's where every person could fill their limit with a rifle, there wouldn't be enough deer to even have the area open the next year.

But by making the WMA archery only, with muzzleloader draw permit hunts, it allows for a good rifle hunt with more oportunities. Also as a bow hunter, I love the fact that they are archery only. That means with a little more homework, I can hunt with out as many hunters in the woods. There are far fewer bowhunters than gun hunters.

I'm of the same opinion as 12GaugeSluggoth. Although I do carry the rifle when I get the oportunity. I am about 95% bowhunter. I've killed far more deer with a bow than gun. Maybe because I carry the bow more often, but I have never failed to fill the freezer.

My advise Mr. RamSlammer is that maybe fine tuning your scouting technique, and a little more homework (woodwork) you would not have as much trouble(or atleast enough to complain about) killing deer.

As far as the new fangled gadgets and gismos, I use a few, but not that much. I don't wear Scentlock, I spray down before heading to my stand. I use a 6 year old climbing stand. My camo varies. But I do a lot of scouting and prep prior to season and during. I scout when I get down and see where the deer moved that morning. But I don't get disappointed when I don't see deer. That's part of it. But I know that if I don't kill deer, it's MY fault. Not because I can't carry a rifle into the woods.
 
That's a valid reason for sure, but why wouldn't allowing shotguns limited to buckshot achieve the same supposed level of safety?
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Have you ever patterned buckshot at 50yds? I have, with several shotguns and various chokes. I would trust my bow in my hands at 50yds to buckshot.
 
Have you ever patterned buckshot at 50yds? I have, with several shotguns and various chokes. I would trust my bow in my hands at 50yds to buckshot.
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Agreed. Wildlife managers know that buckshot is usually a poor choice for effective deer killing.
 
My advise Mr. RamSlammer is that maybe fine tuning your scouting technique, and a little more homework (woodwork) you would not have as much trouble(or atleast enough to complain about) killing deer.
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Yea, okay . . . I'll do that. I am out of tags so it'll have to wait until next season. BTW two of mine were with my bow this year. The point is that on public hunting ground accommodation needs to be made for modern gun hunters. Not lessening archery - it's a great and noble way to hunt. So is a rifle. What occasioned my rant is that I have a couple of nice lever guns that I would love for my son to hunt with. The way it's going though, by the time he's ready to use them the places available will be non-existent.

I started hunting deer in 1975 and a compound bow was an oddity. My Marlin 336 seems headed that way and that's a shame.
 
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In NY state the "bows vs guns" rule in entirely population/safety based. The only areas that are bow only are those very close to population centers.
There are no such things here as permits for Bow only, besides the one you get when you buy a bow hunting license.
 
Cool, congrats on your kills. I don't know where you are located. Did you apply for any of the draw hunts this year.

Sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean it. I was just responding to the info and the assumptions I had made from the typing on the screen. I seem to insert foot into mouth sometimes by responding to more than the OP asked for. Sorry.

This is directly from the AR DNR Website on Permits. I'll post the link below.

Many Arkansas WMAs can sustain only moderate hunting pressure during the modern gun season. The Arkansas Game and Fish Commission has established a lottery-style permit draw for certain hunts on these areas to prevent overcrowding and overhunting. Applying for these permits is free and offers an excellent chance at hunting some of Arkansas' best public land.
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http://www.agfc.com/hunting/deer/permits/wma-permits.aspx

There is your public land hunting for your son. Plenty of permits out there. And I believe the ratio numbers are way off. I remember looking and before they closed down the application period, there were still 40-50 permits for Camp Robinson.
 
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Also, yes, states mandate bow for "various reasons". I guess my question is just what are those reasons and are they really valid?
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I can't speak for your state, but I can guess a bit. A bow has a limited range, and it's easier to regulate the tool used than the way a tool is used. A law enforcement officer might have a hard time proving just how you used your firearm, but if you use a firearm instead of a bow, it's a pretty simple matter.

Another reason is to extend the season. Bows allow more opportunity for hunters to spend time afield, without a heavy harvest when animals are not all the numerous. Our deserts here in Arizona have some deer, but not enough for everyone to go out and kill one each year. The firearms season is by drawing, and the bow season is over-the-counter. The OTC bow season allows folks to get out and hunt, with an opportunity for success, but you have to work a lot harder to get a deer. IOW, you're more likely to earn it, and less people are willing to go to the trouble.

Another reason is to allow those who mostly (or only) bowhunt the chance to enjoy THEIR sport without competing with rifle hunters at the same time.

There are lots of reasons for a bow season, and I think most are valid. It doesn't really make taking a deer easy, but that's oft-times the point.

I consider myself a hunter, and the tool I use is really secondary to that. I use a bow. I also use rifles, handguns, and shotguns. Each has their place, and I thoroughly enjoy the time I spend afield.

If it was just about "taking a deer home", I'd have quit a long time ago. Meat's usually cheaper at the grocery store, although it's not as good, or as good for you.

Daryl
 
Thanks for the well thought out replies. Deer are like stray cats around northern Arkansas where I hunt. (Lawrence, Greene, Sharp, Randolph and Izard counties) The season is long and each hunter gets 4 deer tags. The state has numerous, excellent wildlife management areas of 10,000 or more acres. Unfortunately, most are bow only all season except for youth hunts and an occasional one weekend muzzleloader event.

Overall the deer herd is expanding and has been for years. My thoughts remain that a few weeks of modern gun in the WMA's would be a good idea. It would bring more hunters into the field offering opportunities for many who don't have access to private land. I think it could be done safely in the latter part of the season and without harm to the health of the herd overall.
 
Ram,

The way you explain it in your last post, I would agree. As long as it can be done safely (enough room to hunt without endangering folks watching TV at home), it would probably be a good thing.

You should make that suggestion to your state's DNR, FWS, or whatever they're called in your state. You never know what you might get started.

Daryl
 
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