AR15 magazines too tight
- Thread starter RHarris
- Start date
I had the same problem with some mags I purchased from CDNN. Come to find out it was a combination of a slightly out of spec Busmaster, and some refinished crap mags. The only solution I found was to gently pinch the back of the mag flat, and that helped some. But, out of the 5 I bought, only 2 survived to be modified, the others falling apart with only light use.
Hemphill,did you send them back to CDNN? In my experience, they stand behind what they sell.
R Harris, I've heard of several folk with problems with an out of spec lower. Check over at AR15.com for posts. I'm sure that Bushmaster will stand behind their product also. I don't know about other manufacturers. What brand is yours?
R Harris, I've heard of several folk with problems with an out of spec lower. Check over at AR15.com for posts. I'm sure that Bushmaster will stand behind their product also. I don't know about other manufacturers. What brand is yours?
Badger Arms
New member
My Bushys are both tighter tolerance than my DPMS is. I had Precision Mag 40 rounders that were really tight. My solution was to separate the upper and lower and then take a ruler with some sandpaper taped along the edge and then remove the finish on the inside of the mag well. They fit snug but not tight now and drop right out when I tap the release.
Funny thing is that the USA Mags work better than any of the surplus GI Mags. Go figure.
http://www.ar15.com/products/magazines/information.asp
Funny thing is that the USA Mags work better than any of the surplus GI Mags. Go figure.
http://www.ar15.com/products/magazines/information.asp
Disagree with suggestion regarding working on frame. At Lassen College Gunsmithing School, it was suggested to us to try the simple fix first and then progressive work towards the harder one. "Simple" isn't analagous to "cheap" or "easy", rather, it's more of a stick to the basics approach. Once you go the expensive route and you've messed up, you might just wind up buying a new gun for the customer.
The other side of the coin is that those magazines may have potential for match shooting. Some match shooters actually remove part of the front of the magazine. This allows them to load slightly longer bullets (80 grains/90 grains) and still feed them reliably into the gun. The standard magazine doesn't allow them to do this and hence, the front is remove where it contacts the tip of the bullet.
In all seriousness, if the magazines are bad, replace them. Even if they were "fitted" through your labor, would they be reliable for the purpose you intended? The time spent on modifying may have been better spent elsewhere (reloading, cleaning up the house (so you can find that long lost gun
), fixing the car, etc.).
The other side of the coin is that those magazines may have potential for match shooting. Some match shooters actually remove part of the front of the magazine. This allows them to load slightly longer bullets (80 grains/90 grains) and still feed them reliably into the gun. The standard magazine doesn't allow them to do this and hence, the front is remove where it contacts the tip of the bullet.
In all seriousness, if the magazines are bad, replace them. Even if they were "fitted" through your labor, would they be reliable for the purpose you intended? The time spent on modifying may have been better spent elsewhere (reloading, cleaning up the house (so you can find that long lost gun
), fixing the car, etc.).Mike Baugh
New member
I had this same problem with some mags recently , they were all Mil-Spec [Labelle,Adventureline,Center Industries]. The thermolds fit great and most of the Labelle's fit but all the Center's and Adventureline's had to be tweaked . I measured about .030 difference between mags , I gently squeezed the mags in a padded vise and they all work now . The main problem was in the mag release cut out area of the mag . DO NOT remove any metal on the rifle , the black anodized finish is your hardcoat , if you remove it your aluminum is going to wear very quickly . The Bushmasters are usually tight in their tolerances . Good luck , Mike...
It's got an Olympic lower reciever. I've got several Colt magazines that fit perfectly. So, the last thing I want ot do is mess with the rifle itself. One of the problem mags is a Sanchez and the other is a Labelle. I bought them cheap at a show. Other than fitting too tight, they function fine.
Is there a problem if metal is removed from the magazines?
Is is common to find "deals" such as these at the shows that are possibly military rejects?
Is there a problem if metal is removed from the magazines?
Is is common to find "deals" such as these at the shows that are possibly military rejects?
Mike Baugh
New member
If you sand any on the mags you are going to remove their hardcoat also . Did you measure them to see how much needs to be "Removed" ? Are they tight going in from the very start or after they go into the magwell a little bit ? Good luck , Mike...
Badger Arms
New member
Alright, let me kill the myth that aluminum is soft. In fact, the 7075-T-6 used in the AR is so hard, it will NOT wear out unless you actually try to wear it out with sandpaper. The Magazines are softer, but still wear well. I don't think I've ever seen a mag well that was worn... Period. With Dry Film Lube on the magazines, your wear potential is so low as to be inconsequental.
I do think that the potential for a malfunction related to the magazine is high if run-of-the-mill magazines are giving you trouble. I haven't had a problem ever with my DPMS receiver, but some mags have been a bit wide for the Bushy's. Never front-to-back, but always the width thing. I think squeezing gently on the magazine body with a vice is the best option. It worked well for me on my AR-10 when I modified mags for it. So long as MY mags work, I'm happy.
I do think that the potential for a malfunction related to the magazine is high if run-of-the-mill magazines are giving you trouble. I haven't had a problem ever with my DPMS receiver, but some mags have been a bit wide for the Bushy's. Never front-to-back, but always the width thing. I think squeezing gently on the magazine body with a vice is the best option. It worked well for me on my AR-10 when I modified mags for it. So long as MY mags work, I'm happy.
This is my post on ar15.com (I am 700PSS) about fixing any tight mags I get.
http://forums.ar15.com/Forum13/HTML/002705.html
http://forums.ar15.com/Forum13/HTML/002705.html
RHarris, Unless things have changed drastically since I worked at Bushmaster, Oly recievers do not have hardcoat anodizing, nor are they forged. This means that modifying the mag well would be pretty easy. A few stokes of a drawfile will open things right up.
Squeezing the mags will work unless you inadvertantly break the spot welds, which will render the mags useless. I wouldn't recommend it.
If you don't want to modify your rifle, altering the mags or selling them off and buying new ones sounds like your only other options. Gently sanding your mags down will make them fit better but remove the finish.
It's hard to find good mags anymore since they haven't been made for over six years. There are a lot of bad ones out there, look carefully at what you are buying.
Hope this helps.
Squeezing the mags will work unless you inadvertantly break the spot welds, which will render the mags useless. I wouldn't recommend it.
If you don't want to modify your rifle, altering the mags or selling them off and buying new ones sounds like your only other options. Gently sanding your mags down will make them fit better but remove the finish.
It's hard to find good mags anymore since they haven't been made for over six years. There are a lot of bad ones out there, look carefully at what you are buying.
Hope this helps.
Check this out:
http://assaultweb.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000250.html
One poster says that Oly is aware of this problem and will fix/replace.
http://assaultweb.net/ubb/Forum2/HTML/000250.html
One poster says that Oly is aware of this problem and will fix/replace.
Thanks for the replies, they've helped.
The 20rd Colt mags I have work perfectly. I really don't think I should mess with the mag well since doing so will make it looser for the "good" mags I have. I'm convinced it's the 30rd mags I bought. I did some filing on them and now they fit much better. I wasn't too concerned about the finish since they were used and scuffed up anyway. I was a little concerned with ruining them, but they're just as worthless if I can't insert them or remove them with reasonable ease. With the prices some of these mags are going for now, I think I might just have to take the rifle with me next time to try them out before making purchases.
The 20rd Colt mags I have work perfectly. I really don't think I should mess with the mag well since doing so will make it looser for the "good" mags I have. I'm convinced it's the 30rd mags I bought. I did some filing on them and now they fit much better. I wasn't too concerned about the finish since they were used and scuffed up anyway. I was a little concerned with ruining them, but they're just as worthless if I can't insert them or remove them with reasonable ease. With the prices some of these mags are going for now, I think I might just have to take the rifle with me next time to try them out before making purchases.
FYI
Here's a little something I learned:
I had some mags that fit very tight but according to measurements with a caliper were the same size exactly of many others that fit great.
What I finally figured out was when I measured them for square (corner to corner) they were "parallelogramed". In other words, front to back and side to side they were perfect but one corner to corner measurement was much bigger than the other.
Some careful work with padded vise jaws set that straight and they are now some of my best mags.
Here's a little something I learned:
I had some mags that fit very tight but according to measurements with a caliper were the same size exactly of many others that fit great.
What I finally figured out was when I measured them for square (corner to corner) they were "parallelogramed". In other words, front to back and side to side they were perfect but one corner to corner measurement was much bigger than the other.
Some careful work with padded vise jaws set that straight and they are now some of my best mags.
I have in excess of thirty 30 round MIL Surplus mags. I am afraid I must dispell some of the 'myth' surrounding the 'hardcoat' finish on the aluminum Mil Surplus mags. I went to great lengths, refinishing ten of these mags. With each magazine, I spent at least five minutes each in a 'blasting cabinet' removing the hardcoat. In most instances, it was even longer. It was a mother to get off. Each mag had to be blasted, inspected, reblasted, etc, etc, etc.
Once down to bright aluminum, I refinished them with auto primer (light grey), allowed to dry for 24 hours. Then finished with a 'shiny grey' paint used to coat the little bowls on an electric range. Had a heat resistence of about 1200 degrees and only cost about $4 a can. I used two cans for ten mags. They look and function just like new. I did replace the springs and follower at the same time. If you have out of spec mags, once you are ready to start refinishing them, take a few measurements. You can generally tell what needs to be adjusted by compairing those measurements against a mag that works well in your rifle. Hope this helps.
Once down to bright aluminum, I refinished them with auto primer (light grey), allowed to dry for 24 hours. Then finished with a 'shiny grey' paint used to coat the little bowls on an electric range. Had a heat resistence of about 1200 degrees and only cost about $4 a can. I used two cans for ten mags. They look and function just like new. I did replace the springs and follower at the same time. If you have out of spec mags, once you are ready to start refinishing them, take a few measurements. You can generally tell what needs to be adjusted by compairing those measurements against a mag that works well in your rifle. Hope this helps.
Badger Arms
New member
There is no 'myth' that I'm aware of regarding AR-15 magazines being hard-coated. Mil-Spec magazines are alodine treated and then 'painted' with dry-film lubricant.
Blasting these removes the alodine which protects the aluminum. Painting them with anything but DFL makes the magazines more sticky than they were designed to be. Neither action is advisable.
New magazines are alodined and then painted with teflon-impregnated epoxy I believe. Basic corrosion control classes teach you to leave the alodine alone. Best way to refinish these magazines it to soak them in MEK or Acetone to remove the old DFL and keep the alodine (that brown to yellow coating) intact. Then get some teflon spray from Brownells and apply it as per instructions.
Blasting these removes the alodine which protects the aluminum. Painting them with anything but DFL makes the magazines more sticky than they were designed to be. Neither action is advisable.
New magazines are alodined and then painted with teflon-impregnated epoxy I believe. Basic corrosion control classes teach you to leave the alodine alone. Best way to refinish these magazines it to soak them in MEK or Acetone to remove the old DFL and keep the alodine (that brown to yellow coating) intact. Then get some teflon spray from Brownells and apply it as per instructions.
Badgerarms,
"Blasting these removes the alodine which protects the aluminum. Painting them with anything but DFL makes the magazines more sticky than they were designed to be. Neither action is advisable."
Yes, the alodine is placed there as an inhibitor to outside influences attacking the aluminum in the mag. However, a good automotive primer will do just as good. How many cars fall apart from bad primer paint jobs??? Not many. And the exterior paint I used has been less susceptible to scratching than the paint that the military uses. And, if properly cured (dried), will not impede the insertion or removal of said mag from the firearm. Remember, I have ten of these suckers and NONE of them have the problems you describe.
Lets talk about brownells teflon paint. It's really not worth the money you pay for it. I have used it on many occaisions, and in every instance, it doesn't work nearly as well as regular automotive paint. Why? Because that can of teflon paint is not the same as the $10,000 a gallon Dupont teflon paint as used by the military. If you want to coat your magazines with that type of teflon paint, send them in to Rocky Mountain Arms. RMA is the only company that I am aware of that DOES use Dupont teflon paint, as designed for the military. Even their paint can be scratched off if you are not careful.
It's apples and oranges. None of us has the monetary depth of the US military and substituting 'lower grade' products, just because they sound like similar, doesn't mean they will perform the same. They won't.
I use products that I KNOW work, because I have tried them in the field. The only advice I put forth here is from my own personal experience.
"Blasting these removes the alodine which protects the aluminum. Painting them with anything but DFL makes the magazines more sticky than they were designed to be. Neither action is advisable."
Yes, the alodine is placed there as an inhibitor to outside influences attacking the aluminum in the mag. However, a good automotive primer will do just as good. How many cars fall apart from bad primer paint jobs??? Not many. And the exterior paint I used has been less susceptible to scratching than the paint that the military uses. And, if properly cured (dried), will not impede the insertion or removal of said mag from the firearm. Remember, I have ten of these suckers and NONE of them have the problems you describe.
Lets talk about brownells teflon paint. It's really not worth the money you pay for it. I have used it on many occaisions, and in every instance, it doesn't work nearly as well as regular automotive paint. Why? Because that can of teflon paint is not the same as the $10,000 a gallon Dupont teflon paint as used by the military. If you want to coat your magazines with that type of teflon paint, send them in to Rocky Mountain Arms. RMA is the only company that I am aware of that DOES use Dupont teflon paint, as designed for the military. Even their paint can be scratched off if you are not careful.
It's apples and oranges. None of us has the monetary depth of the US military and substituting 'lower grade' products, just because they sound like similar, doesn't mean they will perform the same. They won't.
I use products that I KNOW work, because I have tried them in the field. The only advice I put forth here is from my own personal experience.
Badger Arms
New member
Not meaning to flame you Wallew. I am in the Air Force and my job speciality is corrosion control and structural maintenance. Alodine is applied before primer. The reason cars are so rust free nowadays is partially due to the better primers but also because of the zinc galvenizing and 'dip' treatment most cars go through.
Primer will stick just as well to alodine as it will to blasted metal. The Brownells stuff is not the greatest, but it is more accessible than DFL and lasts longer. The main problem I have with automotive paint is that the mags look like they've been painted. I never had a problem with the Teflon paint if I did a good prep job.
You are also comparing apples and oranges when you talk about aluminum mags versus steel cars. Primers for steel are different than for aluminum. Be careful you aren't using something thats incompatible.
All of this having been said, the best way to treat magazines is just to leave them alone. If anything, try to track down some DFL and simply recoat them. That 'mil-spec' look can't be beat.
Primer will stick just as well to alodine as it will to blasted metal. The Brownells stuff is not the greatest, but it is more accessible than DFL and lasts longer. The main problem I have with automotive paint is that the mags look like they've been painted. I never had a problem with the Teflon paint if I did a good prep job.
You are also comparing apples and oranges when you talk about aluminum mags versus steel cars. Primers for steel are different than for aluminum. Be careful you aren't using something thats incompatible.
All of this having been said, the best way to treat magazines is just to leave them alone. If anything, try to track down some DFL and simply recoat them. That 'mil-spec' look can't be beat.