AR carbine doodads?

[SA Scott]

OK, now that I've blown a big wad on a pre-ban Colt AR with a 20" HBAR upper that's not even broken in, what I really want is a carbine.

I know the subject's been flagellated around here, and while there's lots of info at AR15.com, I trust the voices here.

So, what to look for/build into a 16" carbine upper assembly, primarily geared for home/perimeter defense? Lightweight barrel profile? Optical/dot sights? Light mounts? A2 vs. A1 vs. telestock? Ultimately, a light, maneuverable carbine set up for rapid target identification and acquisition.

No, I'm not a Rambo-driven gear freak, but I will be living in a semi-rural environment where overpenetration is not a severely limiting factor, and the rifle may fill a niche which my shotgun and handguns don't. Arguments for simplicity are welcome.

Any thoughts or comparable setups you've developed much appreciated.

SA Scott

 

[Poodleshooter]

That AR won't look good to the jury. I use a Glock 30 for late night encounters-the HBAR stays inside. That said, get some tritium "glow in the dark" sights or an ACOG or Trijicon style optical sight. Flashlights seem to point both ways-bad if your facing an armed intruder. Stick to the 20" barrel for the longer barrel plane and sight radius. This should come in handy in a point and shoot situation. As for overall length in close quarters, that's what CAR stocks are for. You have a pre-ban, might as well take advantage of it. Well that's my opinion. Next?

 

[johnwill]

I think the "look" to a jury is highly overplayed. First off, you need to get in front of the jury to have that worry. I'd a lot rather be around to face that problem than go out undergunned and face a bigger one. In a rural environment, I don't see anything wrong with the AR for home defense.

 

[fed168]

Depending on how much you are firing will dictate your choice of a heavy or light bbl. If you can just get a pre ban upper, with a flat top. Easier to mount on optic, plus gives you options on what to mount. Stock is up to the shooter, a 4 position works real well. As for aquisition, I can think of no better item than a light. If anything needs to be added, it is this. Sure Fire makes the better of the lights.
But keep in mind, as was mentioned, lights work two ways. It gives you the opportunity to ID the target, but remember your muzzle is on the same plane as the light: remember the rule of finger off the trigger et al. If a light is employed, you must be mobile, since it gives away a position easily. And remember to use it momentarily, flash it on and off.
As for spare ammo, I had a Redi Mag on the rifle, after a while it affected my operation of the rifle, and added some weight that could be taken off. Thick rubber bands on the foreend or butt stock, two or three, should hold a mag without much problem.
Best of luck.

 

[Jeff White]

Unfortunately, you've picked a bad time to get into ARs. Parts and especially 16" uppers are very expensive right now.

That said This is how my duty carbine (doubles as home defense) is set up.

I started with a Colt 6920 LE Carbine which is essentially a civilian legal M4 Carbine. For optics I have an Aimpoint Comp M reflex type sight in an A.R.M.S. #22M68 mount with spacer. The Aimpoint is very rugged (the Army bought it and is equipping most M4s and M16A2s in Infantry units with it). I have the 7 MOA dot (I got a deal on it if I took the larger dot) and wish I'd have got the 3 MOA model. The 7 MOA is just a little big for shooting at smaller targets out past 100 yards. I have this mounted as far forward as I can on the flattop. Cost of this sight and mount will run about $400.00. Unless you are going to use the Aimpoint in conjunction with a passive night vison device, you can save yourself some money by buying a Comp ML which is exactly like the Comp M except it doesn't have the settings that are only visible through the image intensifier of passive night vision. With either model, make certain you buy the XD version, which is the newest version and has brighter dot intensity and better battery life. If you want to stay with your carry handle upper, Aimpoint makes a forward mount that fits in the carry handle and puts the Aimpoint just behind the front sight. This is a very fast and accurate setup. It also allows you to use your iron sights normally if your Aimpoint's battery should go dead or otherwise fail. A.R.M.S. also makes a forward mount that also allows you to mount an optic or light above the carry handle, but I think that this is overkill.

I have installed the Knights Armament RIS (Rail Interface System) in place of the standard handguards. This system puts a Picatinney rail on all four sides of the barrel, this makes it very handy to mount lights, lasers, a forward handle etc. Cost is about $280-$300 If you don't anticipate mounting any of these accessories, I wouldn't spend the money. I have a light mounted on mine, the only laser I think has any tactical application is an IR one for use with night vision goggles. There are plenty of other good options to mount a light that are less expensive. Knights is now selling the RAS which attaches to the barrel more securely which will make mounting a reflex type optic right behind the front sight an option. This is why I bought my RIS, but it didn't hold zero well so I moved it back onto the upper. I understand that these problems have been corrected with the RAS.

Since I use a flattop upper, I have installed a backup rear sight. I have the Knights 300 meter flip up sight. It works fine. It is only adjustable for windage. All of the elevation adjustments must be made with the front sight, just like with the old A1 type iron sights. My only complaint is that the plastic aperature insert fell out during a Jim Crews carbine school, leaving me with just a large ghost ring instead of the smaller peep sight. This aperature is designed to be removeable, but my experience is that it's a little too removeable . Cost on this sight should be between $80-$100. DPMS, G.G.G., A.R.M.S. and others all make other types of backup rear sights.

I have a 6v SureFire light mounted on the RIS. I have a flip up red lens on the SureFire. Really saves the night vision. Cost of this unit was around $240.

That is how I have mine setup. Now let's get into converting yours.

For general defensive use I prefer a light barrel. The police department bought Colt Model 6721 Tactical Carbines. This model has a 16" heavy barrel. Then I bought my 6920 which has an M4 contour barrel, which is like the M16A2 barrel, heavy at the front and light weight under the handguards. Most of the others preferred the lighter weight of the M4 contour barrel over the full heavy barrel. I think it points better. M4 barrels are bringing a premium right now though. JT Distributing has some Colt 1/9 twist chrome lined M4 barrels right now for $299. The light weight barrels are a little cheaper, but the heavy weight ones are the cheapest (they are less in demand, as the big thing in ARs is light weight right now). Another option is an actual 14.5" length M4 barrel. You can find these a bit cheaper, but you have to have an extended flash hider such as a vortex or one of the extended aftermarket A2 types permanently attached to bring the barrel length to 16 inches so it's legal without any class 3 paperwork.

You can stay with your old upper unless you feel you want to mount optics. If you are going to go with a reflex type sight, the forward mount is great. Flattop uppers go from about $100 for SGW to up to $300 for a genuine Colt M4.

I have the 4 pos telestock on my 6920, but unless you are going to be getting in and out of vehicle or aircraft or have unique storage requirements you would probably be better served with one of the fixed stocks. They are much more stable. Many people find the A2 stock too long for them and prefer the A1. I'm 6'2", 235 and am more comfortable shooting with the A1 stock or the telestock, but everyone arm length and shooting style is a bit different. One advantage to the telestock is that the length of pull is adjustable for smaller statured family members i.e. wife and children .

I do a lot of shooting and really like the setup I have now, but for basic needs I think you can get by with the 16" barrel and a good light.

HTH

Jeff

 

[RikWriter]

I have my preban carbine set up as an M4gery, though a light barrel would work just as well. Mine is a flattop with an Aimpoint CompM XD mounted on it with backup flip-up GG&G sights. The Aimpoint is EXCELLENT in low light conditions. I also have the Knights Rail Accessory System with the vertical foregrip and a Surefire flashlight mounted on it. The Surefire Millenium M500 works just as well though.