ReserveCop
New member
Which, factoring in price and availability of high capacity (aka standard capacity) magazines, etc. would make the best .223 HOME DEFENSE weapon, and why?
Thanks for your opinions.
Thanks for your opinions.
AR-15 vs. Mini 14 for Home Defense?
- Thread starter ReserveCop
- Start date
Either rifle will fill the bill.
The AR will be more expensive. Quality mags are more plentiful and are usually less expesive.
The mini will cost less for the initial purchase. Quality mags are more difficult to find. Stick with PMI or Ruger factory mags. PMI mags will be about 20-30 while the factory mags will be about 80.
Try not to get hung up in the whole AR vs Mini debate. They are both very reliable and accurate enough for home defense.
Try one of each and go with whichever one feels the best to you. Then practice your ass off. Training is FAR more important than equipment.
The AR will be more expensive. Quality mags are more plentiful and are usually less expesive.
The mini will cost less for the initial purchase. Quality mags are more difficult to find. Stick with PMI or Ruger factory mags. PMI mags will be about 20-30 while the factory mags will be about 80.
Try not to get hung up in the whole AR vs Mini debate. They are both very reliable and accurate enough for home defense.
Try one of each and go with whichever one feels the best to you. Then practice your ass off. Training is FAR more important than equipment.
WalterGAII
Moderator
I can't imagine using either for home defense. I did own a Mini, but gave it to a friend, so that his 14-yr-old would have something to play with.
I suppose that I might use my AR for home defense, if I happened to live out in the sticks, where I might spot a covey of rampaging DemocRATs at a few hundred yards out.
I suppose that I might use my AR for home defense, if I happened to live out in the sticks, where I might spot a covey of rampaging DemocRATs at a few hundred yards out.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
I gotta go along with Jaeger as far as the original question. I'm sorta like Walter, though, in not thinking of a rifle as any primary self-defense weapon when at home.
ReserveCop, what do you think?
Art
ReserveCop, what do you think?
Art
IMHO, a rifle is not the most efficient instrument for home defense.
Your trusty 12 gauge pump shotgun loaded with standard 2 3/4 inch OO buck is a much more viable solution.
I feel there is no other weapon that will put a man down in a home defense situation (close range) as reliably as a shotgun. Plus, you will be much more likely to hit your intruder with a shotgun filled with buckshot than you will with any other weapon.
Consider this: A 12 gauge shotgun has 2500 to 3100 ft-lbs of impact energy and it is much easier to hit your target with. Typical spread for an 18" to 20" inch "riot" shotgun with an open choked barrel is around 1" for every yard of range. Thus a shot at 18 feet will give approximately 6 inches of pellet spread. And a shot at 50 feet will be about 16 inches of spread. Yes, a shotgun still has to be aimed, however, the likelihood of hitting my target at close ranges is much better than anything else.
All of that said, I am not saying that a rifle can't get the job done. When I think of home defense, I think of maneuverability in close quarters and being able to pick up a target quickly and being able to hit that target with ample force......a rifle is just too long and cumbersome - and there just isn't much room for error when trying to hit a target. Obviously, long range situations are a whole different story.
Just my .02!
kgs.
Your trusty 12 gauge pump shotgun loaded with standard 2 3/4 inch OO buck is a much more viable solution.
I feel there is no other weapon that will put a man down in a home defense situation (close range) as reliably as a shotgun. Plus, you will be much more likely to hit your intruder with a shotgun filled with buckshot than you will with any other weapon.
Consider this: A 12 gauge shotgun has 2500 to 3100 ft-lbs of impact energy and it is much easier to hit your target with. Typical spread for an 18" to 20" inch "riot" shotgun with an open choked barrel is around 1" for every yard of range. Thus a shot at 18 feet will give approximately 6 inches of pellet spread. And a shot at 50 feet will be about 16 inches of spread. Yes, a shotgun still has to be aimed, however, the likelihood of hitting my target at close ranges is much better than anything else.
All of that said, I am not saying that a rifle can't get the job done. When I think of home defense, I think of maneuverability in close quarters and being able to pick up a target quickly and being able to hit that target with ample force......a rifle is just too long and cumbersome - and there just isn't much room for error when trying to hit a target. Obviously, long range situations are a whole different story.
Just my .02!
kgs.
The mag situation with the mini-14 is terrible IMO. The mere fact that you have to go to extensive lengths to secure a std cap mag that will not have any problem would lead me to not suggest it. Even when you get a good mag the seating in a mini-14 is pathetic. As far as home defense I would rather know the gun will work w/o fail everytime then not, I would go w/ the AR-15. Others may have had better luck w/ the mini but thats been my experience.
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
I'ld take a Mini 14 over an AR if my life was on the line - and in a Home Defense gun - thats what it is.
The Mini might not have the accuracy of an AR, but it goes bang every time and is plenty accurate within HD ranges.
The Mini might not have the accuracy of an AR, but it goes bang every time and is plenty accurate within HD ranges.
Entry/SWAT/Special Forces teams are flocking to 223 carbines for CQB, room clearing duties in droves. The shotgun is still an extremely viable defense weapon but don't sell the carbine short.
With proper ammo the 223 carbine has a low overpenetration and riccochet probability. Recoil impulse is low for rapid folow up shots and the promotion of good shooting habits when practicing. 223 softpoint/hollowpoint has a enviable record for one shot stops.
I have a Mini that would make a great HD weapon. I had the barrel cut back and a flash supressor/front sight assembly permanantly installed so that the total length is 16.25". With the factory wood stock it is a VERY compact, very maneuverable little carbine. With PMI mags it is totally reliable.
Just pick a quality weapons system that you are comfortable with and train with it.
With proper ammo the 223 carbine has a low overpenetration and riccochet probability. Recoil impulse is low for rapid folow up shots and the promotion of good shooting habits when practicing. 223 softpoint/hollowpoint has a enviable record for one shot stops.
I have a Mini that would make a great HD weapon. I had the barrel cut back and a flash supressor/front sight assembly permanantly installed so that the total length is 16.25". With the factory wood stock it is a VERY compact, very maneuverable little carbine. With PMI mags it is totally reliable.
Just pick a quality weapons system that you are comfortable with and train with it.
Bobbalouie
New member
The price barrier is closing. Most AR manufacturers are offering reduced-price entry level models. For example, you can buy brand new ".223 Plinker" AR-15s (with 16" Hbar barrel, A1 upper, A3 lower,and hardcase) from Olympic which cost only $30-$50 more than a mini-14 ranch. Not half bad, really.
For short range, though, the choice between the two really appears to be a toss-up. If you want to use the thing to punch paper in its spare time, the AR might be a less frustrating choice due to its greater accuracy. It is FAR less politically correct looking, though.
For short range, though, the choice between the two really appears to be a toss-up. If you want to use the thing to punch paper in its spare time, the AR might be a less frustrating choice due to its greater accuracy. It is FAR less politically correct looking, though.
Why not an AK74 in 223?
Hello all!
If you are considering a .223 weapon for home defense, why not get a good compromise between a Mini 14 and an AR? A SAR3, a Romainian AK74 in .223 Remington.
I own an AR15, a Bushmaster with a 24' barrel that is great for long range use. Dependable, accurate to a fault, and a lot of fun to shoot. I don't have much experience with a Mini 14, but hear that it is relatively inaccurate and getting good magazines is a hassle.
I bought the SAR3 for about $300, and got German made magazines that work without fail for about $40 each. I have a Kobra red dot sight on it, which I bought for about $100. With the red dot sight, I can shoot accurately at ranges from 10' to 100 yds. And the dependability of the AK is every good as they say it is, at least in my experience.
Cost, size, dependability.... If you want to use a .223 carbine for home defense, why use anything else? I have one in MY bedroom.
Casey
Hello all!
If you are considering a .223 weapon for home defense, why not get a good compromise between a Mini 14 and an AR? A SAR3, a Romainian AK74 in .223 Remington.
I own an AR15, a Bushmaster with a 24' barrel that is great for long range use. Dependable, accurate to a fault, and a lot of fun to shoot. I don't have much experience with a Mini 14, but hear that it is relatively inaccurate and getting good magazines is a hassle.
I bought the SAR3 for about $300, and got German made magazines that work without fail for about $40 each. I have a Kobra red dot sight on it, which I bought for about $100. With the red dot sight, I can shoot accurately at ranges from 10' to 100 yds. And the dependability of the AK is every good as they say it is, at least in my experience.
Cost, size, dependability.... If you want to use a .223 carbine for home defense, why use anything else? I have one in MY bedroom.
Casey
Barrel length.
rock_jock, it seems that the 16" barrel length is including any permanently fixed muzzle attachments.
See Bushmaster's Shorty AK A3 rifle, or, more recently, their postban M4-type carbine.
Both of these have 14.5" barrels with ~1.5" muzzle attachments.
If there were a good bull-pup design out there, it might be interesting to consider for a CQ scenario.
-z
rock_jock, it seems that the 16" barrel length is including any permanently fixed muzzle attachments.
See Bushmaster's Shorty AK A3 rifle, or, more recently, their postban M4-type carbine.
Both of these have 14.5" barrels with ~1.5" muzzle attachments.
If there were a good bull-pup design out there, it might be interesting to consider for a CQ scenario.
-z
ReserveCop
New member
I have good perimeter lighting.
I have a good alarm system.
I have a good large doggy.
I have a good handgun.
I have a good shotgun.
Now I'm looking for a good home defense rifle in .223.
Thanks for your opinions.
I have a good alarm system.
I have a good large doggy.
I have a good handgun.
I have a good shotgun.
Now I'm looking for a good home defense rifle in .223.
Thanks for your opinions.
Every time this question comes up I think to myself,Home Defense? Do they mean INSIDE the house? Or do they mean if a comet has struck the earth and they want to shoot people before they step foot on their property.
I don't see how anyone could find a more suitable choice for "Home Defense" than a good shotgun with the proper loads,except under certain very specific conditions.
Unless you've spent some time clearing houses with the local SWAT unit and go to the trouble of stocking frangible ammo, I think you'd be better served with a shotgun.
I think an AR-15 is great. Everyone should have one. Then certain people would quit asking me why I "need" one! But by the time you put all that Tactical crap on, it is expensive,heavy,and cumbersome. And if I had to justify using a firearm to the local judge, I'd prefer to be talking about a shotgun.
Now if we're talking comets, I'd go with the AR-15. It just looks scary. And they're fun at the range.
Just my opinion. I'm frequently wrong,so feel free to educate me.
I don't see how anyone could find a more suitable choice for "Home Defense" than a good shotgun with the proper loads,except under certain very specific conditions.
Unless you've spent some time clearing houses with the local SWAT unit and go to the trouble of stocking frangible ammo, I think you'd be better served with a shotgun.
I think an AR-15 is great. Everyone should have one. Then certain people would quit asking me why I "need" one! But by the time you put all that Tactical crap on, it is expensive,heavy,and cumbersome. And if I had to justify using a firearm to the local judge, I'd prefer to be talking about a shotgun.
Now if we're talking comets, I'd go with the AR-15. It just looks scary. And they're fun at the range.
Just my opinion. I'm frequently wrong,so feel free to educate me.
AR15s are more accurate, but as others have noted, that won't be a factor at the ranges likely for home defense. Given the mag situation, I'd say go with the AR15. That way you'll have a more accurate rifle for playing with on the range, which is where you'll probably use the gun the most.
M1911
M1911