AR 15 is Doubling...

D

Dakota Law Dog

New member
My Colt AR 15 is doubling, not every time, but more often all the time.

Any thoughts on why? Disconnect worn? What are some good parts companies?
 
Hey! Long time no see!

In my paranoia, I would assume that just normal wear and tear has created a highly illegal piece of machinery. I would get rid of any part having to do with sear engagement and disconnecting, immediately, if not yesterday.

And then I would look for replacements.

:(, Art
 
Dakota, do what Art said, and

DO NOT FIRE the weapon anymore...........until your replace the fire control compnents.
AR's, are unlike M1A's, and some other semi's that can and do "DOUBLE".
They can FIRE BEFORE bolt lug engagement is complete, and blow the entire side, and bottom out of your piece.......
A very dangerous situation TO THE GUY ON THE BUTTSTOCK END.
I suggest calling COlt direct, and giving them the serial # off your weapon, and making sure you get the correct size parts, as they changed the dimensions on the pins, and parts some years back, your may be the old style, mil-spec, or the "new", style which are oversize...easy way to tell, does yours have the sear block?..if so, it's mil-spec.
If NOT 9-10 times it's the new style.
A very few Bue box rifles were produced that were mil-spec, and had a birdcage, but no bayo lug....IF yours is a Green Label rifle, it is a mil-spec.
Hope this helps.
 
First, order a new hammer and two disconnectors (one spare) for a quick fix. After you get the new parts in, try cleaning off the old disconnector, and using a small file, remove a small amount off the forward toe of the disconnector. What happens when the gun doubles is that the trigger is coming up and pushing up on the disconnector's toe (Its the part that lies against the top plane at the front of the trigger, below the hooked part), thus disengaging the disconnector from the hammer before the trigger is in the correct position to catch the hammer. Thus, if you remove a small amount of metal from the toe of the disconnector the problem should be solved. Dont forget to check your spare disconnector, and file it if needed, so you will always have a spare to keep in your buttstock.

Kharn
 
I had the same problem on a pre-ban Bushie that I bought at a gun show. Taking the gun apart, it appeared that someone had tried to home-gunsmith their way to a better trigger job with a Dremel tool. The front nose of the trigger that contacts the hammer had been polished to a thin strip of bright metal through the parkerizing.

Replacing just the trigger solved my problem.

To check what is causing the doubling take the upper off and cock the hammer. Pull the trigger back until the hammer releases. Holding the trigger all the way back, cock the hammer again and slowly release the trigger to reset again. Chances are good that wear on the trigger, disconnector or hammer is the source of your problem.

If you want to be safe you can replace all three items; but performing the test above will probably show you where your problem is and you can decide what needs to be replaced.
 
Before you buy any new parts, check and see where the hammer spring legs are located. Sometimes having one leg under and one under can cause doubles.:cool:
 
I would still go ahead and buy the new parts. It never hurts to have as many parts on hand for your weapon in case there comes a day when they start regulating replacement parts.

A lower parts kit doesn't cost very much and can be invaluable for saving the day if something goes wrong. You can pretty much fix anything wrong with a punch and a small hammer in your range kit.

Good Shooting
RED
 
Before going off and buying all the items as mentioned- answer these questions first.

1 Did you change ammo? The AR-15 has a free floating firing pin that slaps the back of the case when it goes in to lock-up "soft" primed cases can sometimes go off. Also some unwise people have modified Firing pins to make it fire more than one shot per squeeze.

2 check the firing pin itself to make sure it is not damaged or irregular that can cause problems too. Or it may have excessive protrusion that can cause "slam fires"

3 Was any trigger work ever done on the AR in question if so replace trigger system-the stock AR is not designed for "trigger jobs" and the quickly become unsafe after ANY work is done on the trigger. Colt makes a NM trigger now with the correct pin sizes for their later model recievers (amongst others Rock River, etc.).

If it is not the firing pin then replace the trigger mech. w/whatever you desire.
 
If its double feeding its not the disconnector its the EJECTOR.

Take the bolt apart, remove the ejector (not the extractor) and clean that out with a good copper solvent, relube and reassemble.
 
Recently, I bought a pre-ban Colt AR (SP-1) at a gunshow. Gun came with three 30 round mags and 1,000 rounds of ammo for $1,200. Good deal, right? I also bought another upper, also pre-ban that had thw 1in 9 inch twist, figuring to use the heavier bullets. Imagine my surprise and shock, when I got to the range to sight in both upper, when the AR liteally went full auto. Good thing I was only putting five rounds in at a time. It did this with both uppers. There are guys who sell AR uppers and parts at our gun shows so I took the rifle with me and had one of the guys that I know check it out. He replaced the trigger, sear and disconnector. Now the rifle works just fine. Looking at the old parts, either they are badly worn, or the guy tried to do a little illegal type gunsmithing. Guess I should have suspected something might not be quire kosher, considering even beat up pre-bans get $1,500 around here, and this one was clean.
Paul B.
 
Thanks guys for the replies! Got to do something with it quick as I feel naked without it in the patrol car.

It's a Colt Sporter lower, with a Colt flattop upper. I need to find a local 'smith that works on ARs, but they are in short supply up here in ND.
 
If you can - swap it out for another rifle. ARs just are not reliable enough to bet your life on. Not just your life - but the citizens you are sworn to protect and serve. The M96 Carbine would be PREFECT but you may want something less spendy. Remington 7400 can be had for cheap and you can have that in .308... more PC looking too.
 
George, with all due respect, I heartily disagree and so would hundreds of thousands of military who defend our country with it. The AR15/M16 platform is very reliable when properly maintained and shooting decent ammo.

DLD, here's the function check Bartholomew Roberts mentioned:

FC.jpg


MOST doubling problems are disconnector related. First make sure the fire control parts are clean and properly lubed and check that the hammer and trigger springs are in their proper locations. Check the spring on the disconnector. Make sure it's not upside down. The wide end of the spring goes down towards the hammer. If that's ok, replace the disconnector. If that doesn't fix it, replace the hammer .

The AR15 CANNOT fire out of battery. The firing pin won't reach the primer until the bolt is locked. Most blowups are due to faulty reloads (high pressure) or soft primers not seated all the way (faulty reloads again).
 
Firing Doubles? Or Double Feeding? If its double firing then its the disconnector... Feeding its the Ejector.

ARs suck wether you agree or not. Thats why around the world people armed with the AR type weapon are switching to something else.
Just because an Army is armed with the M-16 type weapon doesnt mean its any good. Gimmie a freakin break! The US Soldiers in France got armed with the Chau Chat machine gun! Most weapon adoptions are POLITICAL choices and not based on which is the best weapon. Hence the US adoptation of the M-14 over the FAL despite the fact that the FAL smoked the 14 during the trials. If we had chosen the FAL we wouldnt have needed to change again so soon and thus the M-16 would never have been adopted. As fine a rifle as the M-14 is - its is bested by the FAL...
Although to say that is splitting hairs due to the fact that both rifles are very fine.
The US is still using the M-16 in its latest versions not because the rifle is that good - but because there is not enough PORK for anyone to push a change. Again - all Political.
The M-16 sucked when it was new... It sucked in the 80s... and in 2001 it still sucks.

There are a lot of things around that are good and plenty - yet still suck... There are Saturn autos on the road all the time... Chevys... Fords... You get my drift.
Availabilty doesnt equal Quality.
 
If it's doubling...

it's probably worn disconnector or disconnector spring doesn't have enough tension. Could also be worn hammer hook (what the disconnector catches). Try getting factory new parts and take your calipers to them.

ARs are like lego kits. Since the demise of the percussion rifle, the average American could not build his own rifle. With the AR, we've gone full circle and if you can work on a car, or fix your washer or are in any way mechanically inclined (or played with Lego), you can fix your AR.

It's not hard at all to pull apart the internals of an AR and swap out the parts. You should have a pin punch (cheap enough from any gunshop) and a small hammer (4 oz is heavy enough for gunsmithing). Grab some manual (info is available online at AR15.com) and study it before examining the parts. Study the parts while they're inside the lower receiver and the new spare parts outside. Once you're ready, you begin by removing the hammer pivot pin. After lifting out the hammer and its spring, then drift out the trigger pivot pin. You may want to make a dummy pin to hold the trigger and disconnector/disconnector spring together as a unit when you reinstall it. Do the function test as given above.

Post if you have any questions and it's Good to see you back.
 
Big B........Won't fire out of

Battery.................what about a round that doesn't chamber all the way......then the firing pin is of the floating variety, then you have a what?.............a slam fire, and it's OUT OF BATTERY................just like grandpa's M1A's.....the same exact anomaly happens.
Also, are you saying......it's NOT dangerous for it to be fired when it is doing this???.:confused:
 
Any firearm that doesnt function as advertised is dangerous... if its not working right - then its not working. Slip a Zip-Tie through the action and set it aside for a trip to an AR Smith.
Big B should know this but just wanted to counter the Admin...
;)
 
Tshoes - Like most all military weapons, M14, M1 Garand, etc., the AR15/M16 has a floating firing pin. From the TM -23&P:

1-11. GENERAL. The 5.56mm M16A2 and M4/M4A1 carbine:

a. Is gas-operated. It fires in either the semiautomatic or burst mode.

b. Has positive locking of the bolt. Firing pin is part of the bolt carrier assembly and cannot strike the primer until the bolt assembly is fully locked.

Also, the use of hard primers in mil-spec ammo virtually eliminated slamfires in military weapons. Again, using reloads with soft improperly seated primers might cause a slamfire. In that case the bolt face could detonate the primer before the bolt goes into battery.

George - Far be it from me to try to teach an old dog new tricks. The myths surrounding the M16 family of rifles have persisted for forty years. You're more than welcome to your opinion. I just disagree with it. You being an admin has nothing to do with it. Have a nice day. :)
 
Dakota Law Dog, Either you or your armorer should take the trigger/hammer group out and simply clean everything and reasemble them. One little bit of gungrudder WILL cause the exact problem you mention if the rifle was set up with a set of parts which yeilded fairly close tolerances and most likely a pleasing trigger. You will probably be ok but I would go on and order new parts to have on hand.
HTH
Hank
 
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