Apples and Oranges?

W

whippoorwill

New member
I've often heard the statement on this forum that Smiths, Colts, and Rugers have much better quality control and customer service than Taurus. Perhaps this is true, perhaps not. I don't know. But for the sake of argument, let's say it's true.

Here's my question... isn't comparing S&W, Colt, and Ruger to Taurus the same as comparing apples to oranges? I mean, look at the average price difference. Would these other manufacturers produce top quality on a consistent basis if they charged what Taurus does for each handgun? In fact, the S&W, Colt and Ruger customer service folks might be less stellar if their firearms cost less!

This may only be an excuse for the difference in quality, or it might be a legitimate reason. I'd be interested in opinions on this.
 
In fact, the S&W, Colt and Ruger customer service folks might be less stellar if their firearms cost less!
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Maybe so but from what I hear (via internet forums) Hi-Point's customer service is second to none. At any rate, imo selling cheap is no excuse for selling the customer short in terms of after-sales service.
 
+1 dgludwig!
I bought my Taurus with it's lifetime warranty thinking "How can one go wrong there?"
Mine needs to have the barrel straightened (the front sight is @ nearly 1:00), and the cylinder has a lot of play and sags a bit. But after hearing many state that they waited several months without the problems fixed has me fexed. As this is now my only firearm, and lots of trouble seems to lurk about I can't wait that long!
 
S&W has Sigmas selling for $250 or so.

Ruger sells the P-series pistols awfully cheap. I see them in Taurus-price range.

Frankly, I trust Charter revolvers more than Taurii. They're backed by Hi Point (another one that sells for half the price of Taurus but has better product success when measured by failure and lemon turn-around to the customer) and don't try to push the envelope in the cheapest way possible.

Comparing Taurus to Hi Point and Charter would be apples/oranges too, but in Taurus' favor from a surface examination. But those companies turn out ahead in that comparison, too.
 
Just a couple of comments on the replies so far...

1) Of course, S&W and others make some less expensive firearms, just as Leupold has a series of scopes that cost less than their top line models. But, wouldn't you agree that, in general, S&W, Colt, and Ruger are more expensive firearms... just as Leupold is, in general, a more expensive scope than Bushnell?

2) In my original post, I shouldn't have specifically mentioned Taurus as a "lower cost" manufacturer, as I don't want this to turn into a Taurus-bashing thread. To answer my question, one can pick any lower cost manufacturer and fill in the blank.
 
Okay, Rock Island Armory (made by Armscor) has a reputation for excellent customer service on lower end 1911s that function well. I don't think anybody will compare their 1911s with Wilson Combat 1911s but the customer service is there. I think that's where Taurus really takes flack. If their customer service was up to snuff, the lack of quality control would not be as critical. Also see dgludwig's comments about Hi-Point.
 
Taurus is cheap. Their products are decent.

But I look at what I will call comparable guns:
Rock Island Armory.
Ruger P series automatics.
High Standard

And they're worth the money.


If a gun is low quality, good customer service is needed. Taurus doesn't provide that. Hi-points have about the same rep as Taurus. Good but need repairs, now they have a good background of customer service...
 
My uncle got a NIB Taurus 357. (not sure model), having trouble shooting 357's (only denting primers) but 38 specials firing all day long. Sent it back and almost two months later they finally checked it out and said "there's not wrong with it, your just not suppose to shoot 357's only 38 specials" :confused:WHAT? Your not suppose to shoot 357's out of a 357, then why would you not just buy a 38 then, there cheaper. Only Taurus I would ever consider getting would be a Judge, but who here hasent, it shoot's 410's or ya know its suppose to;). I LOVE my Rock Island Compact (45acp) reliable, accurate, cheap, need say more!
 
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YeagerTheKid said:
...Taurus I would ever consider getting would be a Judge, but who here hasent
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Me.

I have no problem with Taurus firearms but their complete lack of customer service has cost them my business for life. And that's personal experience talking. Sure, their guns are cheaper but you know that up front. You get what you pay for and you take your chances....that's on you . If ( when ? ) you have to take advantage of their "lifetime warranty " and they lie, don't repair it after many months and generally crap all over you then that's on them. I offer up KelTec as an example of cheap gun that is well backed by a good customer service network. Taurus as a company just flat out sucks.

dgludwig said:
cheap is no excuse for selling the customer short in terms of after-sales service.
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Exactly right. And besides, with the corners Taurus obviously cuts in materials, manufacturing and quality control they probably make about the same profit per unit as Smith and everyone else so cost isn't a valid arguement against decent customer service in my eyes.
 
I mean, look at the average price difference. Would these other manufacturers produce top quality on a consistent basis if they charged what Taurus does for each handgun?
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Taurus doesn't skimp on customer service in order to produce top shelf guns at lower price points but they do seem to skimp on QA.

As you mentioned, their guns are priced lower, and with that, they seem to have more than their fair share of QA issues. Worry not about those issues though, Taurus was a Lifetime Warranty.

Now, as you guys could guess, somewhere in the price of that gun is a % of cost that includes warranty work. In mean after all, they aren't just giving you a Lifetime Warranty, you are paying for part of it in the price of the gun up front.

So, the real question is; what costs more, customer service/repair work on the back end or QA on the front end? If they invested in more QA, would that lower the % of returns and in turn lower the price of a Taurus thus increasing their sales even more? Or would it cause a price increase in their product line and decrease their sales?

But, if it improved their overall quality, would their sales increase even if they were forced to raise their price point?

I don't know, I wondered off target.

But yes, Taurus's lower price point seems to be directly related to their overall quality. Not to say you can't get a good Taurus, but I think you have a higher chance of getting a bad Taurus than getting say a bad S&W.
 
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My uncle got a NIB Taurus 357. (not sure model), having trouble shooting 357's (only denting primers) but 38 specials firing all day long. Sent it back and almost two months later they finally checked it out and said "there's not wrong with it, your just not suppose to shoot 357's only 38 specials" WHAT?
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So I'm not the only one who has gotten terse, snotty answers from Tauri's Customer Dis-service Department?

I sent back a 22LR Model 94 that was binding every 100 rounds or so, expressly stating in writing (politely, I might add) that I always eject the spent brass straight down to reduce crud buildup under the ejector star, and that I even tried cleaning it every 50 rounds. After 6 weeks I got it back with more problems than it had before (they actually screwed it up even more :mad:) along with a note with more than a hint of annoyance to clean it more often :confused:. Huh? I guess they think it should be cleaned after every shot?

I had a really sweet Model 66 a while ago. I would by another Taurus, particularly a 2.5" or 3" used 66 for $200 or less. But the fact that they have a lifetime warranty won't get much consideration from me. I'd rather spend a bit more money and have my friendly local gunsmith address any issues.
 
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When considering the knocks against Taurus, I think you should consider that some folks carry these guns to protect themselves and their families. In these scenarios, one malfunction can be earth shattering.
IMHO, in a range gun, cheaper guns, which may have a 1% higher failure rate are not a big deal. In a gun that I am betting my life on, I want to do my due diligence. If it costs me an extra $400 to get the gun that is 1% more reliable, I'm gonna spend the money.
My personal experience with Taurus has been bad. If I found one dirt cheap, I would still buy it, as a plinker.
 
Something I noticed, and I may be wrong,

but,

a lot of folks that do not like Taurus, got
bit on one.

I did to.

Some who defend them have not had one.

I said some, not all.

I have to read between the lines to make
that observation.

I got burned. Had to wait for a long time.
When I got my revolver back, it was just
like it was when I sent it to them.

That is a slap in the face I will not forget.

Tabdog
 
I think it's a fair criticism, considering most of Taurus' lineup are copies of the big name pistols. If it's essentially the same pistol, comparing quality, quality control, or other aspects of the companies are perfectly valid.
 
I've had over a half dozen Tauri so far, including the 357 I carry and the one the wife carries. These both have had thousands of rounds thru them, all mag pressure. I still haven't gotten one of these lemons everyone enjoys bashing so much.
 
I don't think it's apples to oranges but they are different classes of revolvers (because that is the usual subject of this debate.)

The Taurus line is okay for what you spend. The S&W line is more refined and for people who can/want/don't mind spending a small amount more (if any at all) to get a higher quality item AND better service.


It's like a Toyota Camry (Ford Taurus would've been too easy), Absolut vodka, Jewelry from Zales, Valucraft Wiperblades, Schick razors or Edy/Dreyer ice cream. These would be the Taurus products for the sake of this discussion.

The Smith&Wesson line up would be more like an Acura TL, Belvedere vodka, Jewelry from Jared, Rain-X Wiperblades, Gillette razors or Ben&Jerry's ice cream.

The idea is that they are all okay but the latter are just a bit nicer
quality and customer service to back them up.

Now if you want to throw Charter Arms in there for comparison, I guess it would be something like.....

Car-AMC Gremlin
Vodka-Stolichnaya
Jewelry-Pawnshop (which ironically also have Charter Arms revolvers)
Wiperblades-Sticking your hand out the window with an old T-shirt
Razor-Bic disposable
Ice Cream-Melted Mickey Mouse bar that already has the ears bitten off.


I'm just teasing about the last part. The whole Taurus vs. S&W comparison is pretty good though.

Lastly, I included the jewelry comparison because next Sunday is Valentine's Day and I don't want anyone to forget on Saturday when they come home with a new toy and not have anything for the significant other on Sunday.
 
Don't understand what all the confusion is about. There is a old saying that holds true to just about what ever you can consider buying.
"YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR".

You buy a cheap gun you get a cheap gun and all the problems that come with it. I'm not saying that all cheap guns are bad and also not saying that all expensive guns are flawless. But If my life depended on it...I would trust my more expensive gun to fire then my cheap one....because lets face it if you don't have faith in the gun and you bought it because you had to have it right then and there and couldn't wait till you saved a few hundred dollars....WELL.

I want to add that this post is not pointed toward anyone but myself experiences with buying cheap stuff and getting burned.
 
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