Anything better than a savage fcp-k for my needs

T

timelinex

New member
Ok so I had a thread on here earlier where you guys helped me choose what I wanted to get. Now I have a much clearer idea of what I need and its requirements. I have narrowed it down to a savage fcp-k in .308 and I was ready to buy it but then "tobnpr" pointed out a choice that might have been as good, so I figured I would check back here to get any last minute suggestions on whether thats what will best fit me, before taking the plunge and buying it.
I am planning on buying it within a couple days, so if there's something I'm missing any differing opinions or advice would still be appreciated.

1. I need something that can do long range shooting(1000 yards). As I am not nearly there yet but I live near the desert where I can practice something like this when Im ready. I also live next to a well known sniper school that I plan on attending in the next couple years, and the requirement would be something that can reach 1000 yards.

2. I wont be doing TOO MUCH hunting, but I want to get into it, and might go occasionally(in other words could be once in a year or ten+ times, depending on time I have).

3. Bullets not too expensive. I will mostly be using it for target shooting, and I'm not one to shoot a couple and stop. So even if I eventually get into reloading, I still want something that is relatively affordable.

4. Under 1000 out the door(not including scope)

So the reason I chose the .308 is because it can do all of the above, and its the most common and cheapest. The only draw back is that it from my understanding it starts to become alot less effective after 1000 yards, BUT thats ok with me because once I can do 1000 yards, Ill worry about getting something better.

The reason I chose the savage is because from all my research I found that savage is recognized as the best rifle's for the money. The reason for the fcp-k is because it seems like for under 1000 thats the best you can get, that fits all those options.
 
Nothng wrong with your choice of rifle or caliber. However if you are willing to spend up to $1K on the rifle, I'd save a little money extra and get the 10 FCP with McMillan stock. I've never shot the Accustock and it may fit your needs, but the McMillan should be an upgrade.

Since you don't reload yet look at ammunition like Federal Match ammunition. Buy it in bulk to get better deals on it. Then whe you start reloading look to bullets like Sierra Match Kings, Hornady A-Max, and Nosler Custom Competition.
 
Thanks for the advice, Ill look into those bullets. Any site you recommend that has ammo at the best deals? I've been sticking to walmart, as it seems to outdo every other place.

The one with the mcmillin stock was actually the only other one I was looking at. I like that stock more BUT It doesnt have a fluted barrel(not a big deal at all) and more importantly I couldnt find it for under 1100 in stock.
 
The McMillan stock is a great stock but it has a high cheek piece.

If you use ear muffs instead of ear plugs at the range as I do, I find that the top edge pushes the ear protection away from the ear and causes me to have to adjust my cheek weld. With the big boomers are shooting their magnums in the next bench, ear plugs just don't hack it for me so I prefer full cover ear protection.

For bench shooting, the accustock might actually produce a more comfortable shooting position, even if it may give up 0.01 to 0.04 inches in accuracy.

The basic Savage stock provides very good accuracy, probably as good as I can achieve. The original stock averaged 0.55 inches for its favorite ammos and shot some very small groups on the order of 0.145 to 0.2 inches its favorite hand loads. Unfortunately, my technique isn't up to maintaining that kind of performance over lots of groups.

The McMillan stock is slightly better but I'm not sure I can measure the difference in my case.

A better shooter might be able to get more out of it, but the high cheek piece is somewhat bothersome at the range.
 
If you're buying factory ammo, you can probably do better than the selection at Wal-Mart, but maybe not. Ammo prices change, sometimes daily.

Look at Midway USA, or MidSouth Shooting Supply, or Widener's, or even CheaperThanDirt have ammo for sale. Shop around, and don't be afraid to buy name-brand ammo on sale if you can find a deal. Or Lucky Gunner, or just Google for your ammo.

When you start to reload, you'll find dramatic savings in handloading your own ammo. Save your brass, it's the most expensive part of the cost curve.

For .308 factory ammo, the gold standard is Federal Gold Medal Match.
 
I just picked up a 308 Savage FP. Very nice and Very accurate. As for reloading,that might be something you want to look at sooner rather than later.
308 is not a cheap round to buy if you are going to be shooting a lot.Reloading can really cut down on the cost and give you a much better bullet. 1000 yards is a long way to shoot with off the shelf ammo and expect any kind of accuracy with it.
 
The McMillan stock is a great stock but it has a high cheek piece.
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Thats because most of the tactical scopes are made with 50mm or larger objectives that require taller rings. So the taller comb brings your eye in line with the scope better. There are several different styles of muffs out there and you should be able to find a set that would work with the comb. As long as you aren't buying electronic muffs they really aren't that expensive to try a few different sets.

Ammo Engine is a great way to find deals on ammunition on line. I use them quite a bit to find my .22 WMR ammunition as that is about the only stuff I buy anymore. If you are serious about long range shooting you will need to start hand loading.

As far as flutes go on the barrel, the really don't do much for you. They do look kind of cool and I have a couple barrels with them. I really hate the muzzle brake on that rifle you linked to as well, and that would be something that I would probably have taken off and a thread protector made to fit it.
 
Ok, so what are some 'must knows' for these rifles?
Ive read about all the breaking in contreversy and decided I will be doing something in the middle. Do I give it a full cleaning(action and everything) before shooting it the first time though?

What about cleaning. Do I clean it after everytime I shoot? Do I just clean it barely, or deep down? Is using dechlorinated brake cleaner a good option? Then do I oil it sparingly or generously. Is the bore to be cleaned alot? I have a 22 and I was told that with a 22 to almost never clean the barrel. But reading about bigger rifles, it seems everyone is cleaning the bore every time.

Ammo wise, I see the federal gold is the 'golden standard', but other than those, what different grains and companies should I try. I remember reading the full metal jacket one's are bad for the rifle? Or maybe its the military surplus ones, I cant remember. Are they truly bad, or do you just need to clean more often?

Lastly, as far as reloading. I remembering running some numbers, and it was really ALL that much cheaper to reload on the 308. Maybe I miscounted though. Is it supposed to be twice as cheap, or are you talking on the order of a couple pennies per round.
 
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You are years away from being able to shoot effectively at 1000 yards from the sounds of it. I always get a kick out of the aspiring snipers on these forums, but i'll help you out a little anyways. I've used break in procedures and IMO they're a waste of time, but If your going to use a break in procedure don't just use your own, use one thats credible.

http://www.rifle-accuracy-reports.com/barrel-break-in.html.

Ammo wise, your going to have to experiment with which factory ammo your gun likes to shoot. I'd stay away from the real expensive ammo, because it sounds like what you need to do is practice. As far as a full metal jacket bullets being bad for the gun, I don't know where you heard it, but its not true (maybe you heard steel cased ammo is bad), and the biggest benefit of hand loading for a 308 isn't necessarily pinching pennies, its being able to make up a load that will shoot the best groups out of your rifle, and is an absolute must if you want to shoot at a 1000 yards.
 
The initial cost of hand loading will be expensive since you want to shoot to 1000 yards you will want to buy good equipment. Federal Gold Match 168 grain ammunition runs $1.45 per shot; I figured if you roll your own with new components you can do it for $1.09 per shot. That will save you a total of $0.36 cents per shot. So it will save you $360 for the first 1000 rounds which will pay for most of your equipment you will buy.

I plugged all the components into the Hanloading Cost Calculator. I got my prices from Midway USA on the components I used:

8 lbs Varget $156.99
500 168 grain Sierra MK bullets $149.99
100 pieces of Lapua .308 Brass $62.99
1000 Federal 210 Match Primers $42.49
42.0 grains of powder used per load

If you use cheaper components you can get down to around $0.85 per round for ammunition pretty easily, maybe even less if you shop around a little more. I wouldn't recommend buying primers and powder from the internet as Hazmat fees will eat up savings. It is cheaper to buy locally and pay the taxes in most cases, unless you are going to purchase in very large quantities.
 
Why the dislike of the muzzle brake?
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Because they are noisy, I don't like to shoot them or be next to people using them on the range. That is why I built my long range rifle in .243, to not have to worry about reducing recoil. If I ever move up in calibers and need recoil reduction for long range shooting, I'll seriously look into suppressors over muzzle brakes.
 
I have the same FCP-K that the OP is looking at, great rifle!! I never noticed any excessive noise, but am always using hearing protection so I dont notice. I do notice whenever there is someone next to me, I always get funny looks after putting a few down range. Personally I just think it adds to the look of the rifle.
 
taylorforce

Your numbers are right on if you use the assumption that your start with new brass on every load. Most reloaders wouldn't do that, even trying to get 1000 yard performance.

My experience, even with cheap Remington brass, shows that you can load well over 8 times without a problem.
Using 42 grains of Varget, you would not be pushing the brass at all.
In fact you would achieve a muzzle velocity of about 2600 fps which is slow compared to the Federal Gold Match 168 SMKs which are shown at 2650 fps. To achieve 2560 fps would take 42.8 grains of Varget.
When running powder charges in the 2600 - 2650 fps range, I find that you would not even have to trim the reloaded brass for several loads.
I am now on my 14th reload of Remington brass without any failures.

I have also loaded Winchester and Nosler brass and expect them to do even better in reload performance than the thinner Remington brass. Lapua should last even longer since their cases are heavier than most.

My loading experience shows:
The bullets cost 26.4 cents (500 quantity) (I buy on sale for $ 133/500)
The powder costs 11.7 cents (Reloader 15 - Varget is 12.8) 42.9 grains
Match primers cost 4.0 cents (Federal 210M)
Remington brass costs 3.9 cents if you consider you reload 1 least 10 times.
Total cost 45.2 cents per round

Nosler brass (at $41 per 50) would cost 8.2 cents per round with 10 reloads making the per round cost 50.5 cents.

Even on sale, Federal Gold Match 168 SMKs go for over $23 a box.
Your cost numbers are the current full price and are higher.
Even if you were able to get Federal Gold Match on sale, there still is a savings of $ 0.44 to $ 0.49 per trigger squeeze at a minimum when you consider reusing brass.

My 100 yard test results to date show a net improvement in average group size from 0.73 inches for Federal Gold factory (average cost per round of $1.13) to 0.55 inches for Reloader -15 hand loads with an average cost of $ 0.45.

To date I have spent $1,200 on reloading equipment (expensive scale, trimmer, trim mate and press as well as dies for 10 calibers) and have loaded 5500 rounds in 5 rifle and 5 handgun calibers since August 2010.

I have paid for my equipment more than 2.5 times in 9 months.

I got an improvement in accuracy, learned a lot about my rifles, and managed to shoot 2.5 times more ammo for the same cost.
 
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Your numbers are right on if you use the assumption that your start with new brass on every load.
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Yeah I know, just trying to stay to the KISS principal with the new guy. ;) I was positive he would figure out that he wouldn't be using new brass every time.

I never noticed any excessive noise, but am always using hearing protection so I dont notice.
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So do I, I've owned one braked barrel for an Encore and I traded it off quick. It was 17" long and annoyingly loud, used it both as a pistol and as a carbine. In carbine form it would actually blow my ball cap off if my muffs weren't holding it on.

I know if it would have been longer it wouldn't have been as bad, but I still don't like my friends braked rifles when I shoot them or next to them either. I can live with a little recoil to not have a brake. I know they are expensive but I feel that suppressors are the best way to go if you want/need recoil reduction.
 
The particular rifle the OP mentioned has either a 20 or 24 inch barrel. I've put 500 or so rounds through my 24 and I've never noticed any of the pressure returning anywhere near my body. The best I can tell, its several feet to my left or right and seated at a bench, I see no disturbance on the ground. Even if the barrel were 7 inches shorter I find it hard to believe that one would feel the directed gasses anywhere near their face. Now the guy sitting next to me, thats another story but I mainly shoot on a private range so its not a problem. This may be something to consider in a situation where you will have people to either side of you. I consider having a .308 with the recoil of a .243 to be a bigger factor than the comfort of someone in the path of the brake.
 
Thanks for all the replies guys, I really appreciate all the knowledge. This forum and others certainly have more than enough information in them already, but sometimes its much easier to process when its all in one place and tailored to your situation. So even though I'm far from doing the 1000 yard shots or reloading, you can bet that when I'm ready the first thing I'm gonna do is go back to this thread and read all the advice and links that were recommended.

You are years away from being able to shoot effectively at 1000 yards from the sounds of it. I always get a kick out of the aspiring snipers on these forums, but i'll help you out a little anyways
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I think I might have got my point across wrong if thats the attitude you got from me on my original post. I definitely know that I have alot more to learn and need alot more practice till I can even shoot at any high precision rifles limits. Thats why I got a 22lr as my first rifle instead of a high powered one or an AR like I wanted to originally. So that I can do my 'due diligence'. But with that said, since I'm buying something in the higher price range(relatively higher) I want to get something that won't limit my personal growth in the next year or two. I have shot my 22lr with ammo that it didnt like before, and it was just frustrating. At 50 yards I can easily do groups that are almost touching each other, but because of the bad setup it would produce fliers and be all over the place. I had no motivation to practice and improve my skill when I knew that the result wasn't measurable. Also since I live in an area where I'm lucky enough to be able to eventually try those long range shots, I want to be able to eventually take advantage of that. Throughout my years of experience in other fields, I've learned that you have to be able to trust your hardware/tools potential to be able to advance your own skill in using it.

So my intention wasn't to come off as a newbie that barely knew anything but thought he could become a world class marksmen just because of a good rifle.

Onto the reloading topic, so from my understanding I can start off from cheaper ammo and collect that brass. Then even though it's cheaper ammo to begin with, the brass will be almost just as good to use for reloading.

Lastly, I remember when I went to the range a month or so ago and asked for the 200 yard lane, just to experiment with the limits of my 22, they asked me if I had a brake I think. I don't so they just said ok, but why did they ask me? I requested the 200yrd range again on another day and they didn't ask me anything. Is it possible they have rules on muzzle brakes or something? I got to ben avery in phoenix, in case anyone knows of them. I can see how it could be annoying to others if it makes it much louder like you say, but I don't think it would make sense that there would be a limit on something like that at a large outdoor range. I've sat next to some very obnoxiously loud shooters, but honestly it seems like the loudest were always handguns!
 
I'll toss my 2 cents in since I shoot a 10 FCP HS Precision and I reload.

I picked up my new Savage around the first of the year. Bought it locally at one of the Phoenix area gun stores. Gave $890 + tax so it was under $1K out the door.

I like the HS Precision stock. I did add a Karsten cheek piece to it. I am running a Bushnell Elite 4200 6-4x50mm optic on it and needed a little extra height for a good cheek weld. With a smaller optic, the cheek piece may not be needed (of course, that also depends on the physical features of the shooter).

I was recently at the Buckeye Hills range. A guy two positions down from me was shooting a rifle with a brake on it. It was nasty loud and very distracting to say the least (and remember, I do enjoy guns). As an instructor friend of mine often times mentions when someone with a brake attends his rifle class...."Battle conditions provided, no extra charge!". I would hate to attend a 4 day course parked next to that.

As for a brake on a .308 Win rifle that weighs as much as the 10 FCP, I don't see the need for it. By the time you put the typical 1000 yard capable optic on it and a good bipod....the recoil is not an issue....you are probably up to about 13 pounds by then. Heck, I'm only 5'4" (not a big guy) and I don't even notice the recoil. I'm sure there are some folks that are recoil sensitive but then again, we aren't talking about a 6.5 pound hunting rifle either.

A recommendation for buying factory ammo.....always buy the same brand.....that way, when you decide to start reloading, you won't have 4 different head stamps in your brass bucket to deal with. I prefer Winchester brass for reloading and if you are looking for inexpensive rounds for starter/practice and/or barrel break-in, then Winchester Super-X is pretty cost effective and makes for good brass for future hand loads. I believe Wally World carries it too, if that makes a difference. Catch it on sale.

And for what it is worth, I believe the local Cabela's had Federal Gold Medal Match on sale a couple of months ago for $21.95 per box....compared to their non-sale price of $34.99, that is pretty good. I keep a few boxes around for reference....just for something to compare new load workups against. FGMM is consistent enough out of my 10 FCP that I can easily verify proper chronograph operation with it.

I've not had much time to work up new loads yet for the 10 FCP, but the 2nd trip to the range with a 5 different loadings of 168 gr SMK on top of Varget powder, one of the 5 shot groups came in at .4". The 1st trip produced produced 4 sub-MOA groups out of the 5 I tried. The rifle can shoot when I've not drank more than a gallon of leaded coffee. :D

Lots of good info and recommendations in this thread....enjoy which ever model you get and give reloading a try when you are ready....it is yet another great aspect of the sport, IMHO.
 
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