Anyone like to Punch Judy (pun intended)?

B

B Shipley

New member
I really do not have the time for a lengthy discussion about the NRA and the half-truths they espouse.

These "so-called" cop killer bullets are advertised in the backs on gun magazines. I HAVE SEEN THE ADS. They do NOT refer to them as "cop killer" bullets, but DO refer to them as vest penetrating bullets. Now, what else do you think that could possibly mean???

You need to do a little more research and look at materials and study's done by someone other than the NRA. You are getting a completely one sided opinion. I have carefully studied BOTH sides of this issue and believe me, if the NRA is willing to spend 80million dollars a year to lobby in Washington - then they must definitely feel that they have something to fear.

Judy



Dear Judy,



You didn't respond in any meaningful way to what I sent you. I asked for references, not hearsay. Post references for the ads, or don't mention the point. You didn't respond to the Fact that the manufacturers of bullet resistant vests will not rate them for any bullet larger than 5.56mm, which excludes the vast majority of hunting rounds (time for hubby to give up his "cop-killing sniper" rifle). I submit the reason the NRA spends this money is that they don't want some misinformed individuals trying to ban hunting rounds to "save the children (whales, fill in the blank with whatever it is this week)."



Why must I do more research? I have given a chronology for the introduction of these weapons. I can remember them all being listed in the copy of Gun Digest I owned as a kid (1976 edition). It has taken a long time for these weapons to get negative air time (I bet you that you didn't even know they existed until the past 5-10 years ago).



You don't have the time, it seems, for anyone who doesn't think like you do. The well informed should be able to argue their point, not evade an argument. The only reason an educated individual would have for doing so is that their arguments are built on a house of card and have no substantive facts, but only an appeal to emotion, a well known and demonstrable fallacy.



Sincerely,



Brian P. Shipley



P.S.: Who do you think give the NRA its money? Other people like me who don't want someone who uses emotion to argue their point, or even more sinister, obfuscate the facts for everyone else.



Apologies to Rich, but this inDUHvidual isn't a member, so I hope I can gety some leeway on common sense (rather like Judy, herself).
 
I have some good resources for her, I was going to send her the email tomorrow if it was finished but due to a death of a friend I am going to have to wait to finish it. I do have some facts that will back up what we are trying to say. Thats the way I learned it, she isnt going to believe someone that has anything to do with assault weapons or the NRA, she needs to see the facts. I know you really would like to tell her off, believe me I do, but hold back because it will only anger her more. Let me get this all together and see what kind of response she comes with. She seems to be repeating the same things so it looks to me like she only has one source that its coming from. I would really like to know what magazine this is that she saw this. I dont know all that much about this stuff but it would be my belief that if this is in a magazine that would be illegal? I'll let you know what she says this time!
 
Uh...excuse me, I don't ever recall seeing any ads that claimed this or that bullet would penetrate body armor. Admittedly, I don't read every ad in a magazine, but any company that would make such a claim is much too irresponsible to get any of my business.
 
Grayfox-
I don't even think the mag claims matter. Will Judy also move to ban sales of video tapes promising the secrets of "awesome Spetnatz killing moves" that can be learned in three easy lessons.

My God, if we allow these ads to continue, we needn't worry about our bars turning into "Dodge City" with civilians killing civilians...instead they'll look like a Bruce Lee Movie. "The Children" can even order these killer tapes. The police will be "outgunned".

My Point: Here's a woman that claims she gets most of her info from the tube. Is it any wonder that Rag-Ads fill in the rest?
Rich
 
Well.

I was going to say something about "Let's not alienate fence-sitters with thread titles like this one," but I went back and read the other 'Judy' thread (most of which I had missed). So there's no point.

Along with everything else, she keeps harping on the idea that if everyone comes to the same conclusion (different from hers), they must all be being brainwashed by the same source of disinformation (the NRA).

We state the facts, and call them facts because when we take a broad look at all the information, it always points to the same conclusion.

Take any physical phenomenon, gravity, for instance. Anyone, anywhere, can drop a ball off a tower and figure out what the rate of acceleration is. If 100 different people in 100 different places do identical experiments, their observations will reveal the same results, even if they never communicate their data to each other.

It doesn't mean they're brainwashed.

Somebody please tell her that. I've jumped into this game a little too late, and I just don't have the strength to butt heads with this person. I'm too depressed from reading the futility evident in the other thread.

-boing
 
I don't respond to "bunk"!!!



Dear Judy,



I wish I maintained the same policy, as I , unfortunately, have responded to what you have written, and wouldn't have had I had such a policy.



Sincerely,



Brian Shipley



P.S.: How can anyone who won't back up what they say, call anything "Bunk"? You sound extraordinarily juvenile. Did you stick your fingers in your ears while yelling "I can't hear you," when you respond to our e-mails?
 
I applaud everyones efforts to educate Judy to this point. However I feel from this point foreward any further attemts to do so are an exercise in futility and are a waste of energy that could otherwise be spent on someone truely interested in learning facts. We have made some remarkable strides with some antis and fense setters. We've gained some very good allies, not the least of which are our very own Ms.D and GnR. Of all of us here Judy should be more willing to listen to Ms.D than anyone considering the position she comes from and the fact that she is not the product of years of so called NRA brainwashing.
But there comes a point where we have to recognize that we can't educate all of the Judy's of the world any more then we're going to be able to convert Sara Brady.

Move on to someone that is worthy of the effort. And let's all just be thankful that we're not her husband. If I were married to her I'd be hunting to. But it wouldn't be for Bambis daddy. I'd be huntin' a replacement for Judy.



------------------
Gunslinger

We live in a time in which attitudes and deeds once respected as courageous and honorable are now scorned as being antiquated and subversive.
 
Personally, I'm sorry for Judy, but sorrier for the country as a whole. We live in the "Information Age," are immersed in the bright light and often the glare of information, and yet many among us are benighted in ignorance, because we can't distinguish information and propaganda in the guise of information from knowledge and truth.

The fact is that all the information in the world won't do the Judys of our country any good without old-fashioned open-mindedness and a willingness to sift endlessly through the chaff of information in order to get at the grains of truth. This requires discernment and plain work, but too many of us are willing to let the broadcast and other media do our work for us. So nowadays intellectual laziness and sloppy thinking seem to have become the rule rather than the exception.

IMO, in a republic, people place their own liberty at risk when they refuse to exercise reason and open-minded thought on vital issues. Under such circumstances, they are too apt to surrender their power, as Judy seems to want to do.
 
Dang, jimmy, I think you cracked the code. The problem is, that people don't what 'just the facts' they want the 'answer' too. Too damn lazy to read/do the research, verify the source, think analytically, and form a conclusion, after all, taking stand is risky. 'Sides, if you voice your own position, someone might expect you to stand up for it-

We aren't really in the Information Age, but rather the "Infotainment Age". The media psuedo-savants have lost their ethics along with their objectivity, and as Alfred E. Neuman used to say, 'all the news that fits, we print', and in their egotistical rush to self agrandizement, feels the urge to tell us 'unwashed' what it means, really.

Still barfing, M2
 
As I told Miss D on her other thread dealing w/ Judy, I applaud her and the others trying to get through this woman's thick head.

Im afraid I would have lambasted her by now for her ignorance, and her willingness to be spoon-fed by the media, et al.

I must say that people like Judy nauseate me to no end. I am sick and tired of all the "sheople" out there that, just like baby birds, accept any idea or notion that's presented to them. We have become a nation of automatons. I want to scream "Think for yourselves people, baa, baa!"

I need to go shootin' to "blow off some steam" now. how depressing :(
------------------
"...What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?... Fight, and you may die, run and you'll live, at least a while. And dying, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for just one chance, to tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our FREEDOM!!!"




[This message has been edited by Darthmaum (edited July 12, 1999).]
 
Has anyone tried to inform her on what makes a "cop killer" bullet so? Teflon or Moly coating that was put on the bullets to increase feed reliability and reduce barrel fouling, but then LATER was accidentally found to cause some bullets to sometimes penetrate a vest better? And, these bullets have been pulled off the shelves since that was discovered?
Like Miss D said, the Police aren't worried about these supposed super-bullets, so why is Judy? (Can you say "knee-jerk"?)

She might also like to know that many many hunting bullets are Teflon or Moly coated in order to also increase feed reliability and reduce barrel fouling. This keeps the barrel accurate without cleaning as often, but also makes her hubby's overpowered hunting rounds even better at piercing vests. Her husband own "cop killer" bullets for heaven's sake....very powerful "cop-killer" bullets.

whatever....
thaddeus
 
We tried not to bash Judy, but she is unwilling to listen. I, however, recommend that e-mail to her cease. Some people get their jollies through what they perceive as persecution. And all of us big ad "gun nuts" are just itching to gang up on her. In fact, if we had our "assault weapons" we might just "let her have it," the poor dear is only trying to save "the children" from "vest piercing" bullets. Let's give it a rest and try with someone who is willing to hear the issues and prove their point with evidence, if they can, not someone who shouts louder than their opponent every time they hear something they don't like.
 
Shortcut,



We've all asked her to come visit, but she persists in spouting the same crap over and over. Give up. One idiot doesn't matter. Let's try for someone else with a more open mind. Besides, did you read how they had a handgun stolen (read unsecured) and then she wants to put safety devices on all guns, rather than do something common sense like LOCK THE F---ING THING UP.
 
Mike--"Infotainment" is right! Broadcast journalists have devolved into media personalities and superstars. So I'm afraid that they no longer have any idea what it means to be an average American citizen or to see things from our perspective. After all, they're powerful, privileged, isolated from all but their own kind, and, of course, rich.

(Not that I wouldn't like to be rich myself! I told my wife last night that if we ever win the lottery a parade of Colt SAAs will be stopping at our place!)

[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited July 14, 1999).]
 
Darn, I thought this was a thread about Judge Judy - and YES YES YES I would love to punch Judge Judy.

I'd slap this Judy, too.
 
With a big nail-studded cluebat, eh Futo? :)

------------------
You can't get something for nothing,
You can't have freedom for free.
--Neil Peart
 
One of my toughest things in life is concluding that a fellow human being is an idiot, and giving up on helping them to understand the logic of an argument. That doesn't mean I insist on agreement with everyone - just that they make a logical counter-argument. Judy is relatively easy to abandon in this regard.

jimmy hit this nail right on the head.

Miss D, nice try. Judy cannot be helped. Let her slip over the side, and pull another one out of the drink.

Gotta go now ... I need to reread my NRA magazines so I can remember what to think ... ;)

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited July 14, 1999).]
 
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