Anyone knowledgeable about Khyber pass enfields

5

5whiskey

New member
So looking at a rifle on the broker, it’s an all matching (allegedly) No 4 MK I. It looks beat to heck from the few bad photos in the post. No roll mark photos. What little detail I can see of the receiver it looks crude, and the shape of the butt of the stock is definitely off. I have asked for pictures of roll marks but unsure if I will get them before the auction ends. I understand I may not get a response here before this auction ends but I would like to know for future reference anyway. FWIW I do not plan on buying this particular rifle anymore, as my mandatory wait 12 hours and think about it before bidding rule has probably done its intended job. I also understand buying firearms on gunbroker can be a gamble but I have had some good experiences.

Does anyone know if any No4 Khyber pass knock offs were ever made? From my brief research the majority of them were No 1 Mk iii rifles. I’ve also read that some Khyber copies somehow were imported as recently as 2007, and have allegedly been sold under the Impression the were not copies but were functional rifles. Has anyone else seen or heard of this? Enfields are drying up and going up in price, and it’s something I’ve always planned on getting. Gunbroker opens up options, there are very few listed locally and many are big $$$ (not paying $700 for a nothing matching, missing hand guard beater). I do want to make sure I make informed decisions, hence why I ask here.
 
I can't remember the model, but I saw an Enfield at Cabela's that was sketchy as hell. I'd bet 29 cents it was a Khyber. It was scary just holding it.
 
I have seen pictures of No5 carbines that are Khyber Pass made, but not a No4. All of these were imported by T. KNOX and most have a TE serial number prefix.

When in doubt stay away is my motto!
 
I have seen pictures of No5 carbines that are Khyber Pass made, but not a No4. All of these were imported by T. KNOX and most have a TE serial number prefix.

When in doubt stay away is my motto!
Click to expand...

Thanks that’s specific and helpful information! And I definitely practice staying away when in doubt. Fortunately my patience may pay off I have a line on a long branch in pretty good shape (not all matching, but matching receiver and bolt) for a decent price. I’ll see if it pans out, but definitely studying the S/N scheme and making sure it matches the manufacturer is helpful. I’ve already culled a few suspect rifles out from Gbroker doing that. They could’ve been legit and an anomaly but not worth rolling the dice on. Oh and my reading has also taught me to be on the lookout for, and avoid, 4 groove rifling.
 
I don't know if it is still the popular definition (people are happily re-defining about everything, these days) but the term "Khyber Pass Rifle" or "Khyber Pass Gun" referred to the handmade "copies" of guns produced in that region, by individual native craftsmen. Pathan tribesmen in particular had a reputation for doing this.

The guns can be anything, from crude "sort of looks like a gun" to well done copies, faithful down to the copied proofmarks. Most are some British gun, but there were others. Reportedly there is/was a Luger P.08 copied well, down to all the markings.

These guns were handmade, there were no standards, quality control. inspection, proof testing, or anything like that. The steel is of unknown quality, and reportedly some of the steel used came from ripped up railroad rails. Heat treating is what ever the maker felt like and often was not done or done right.

The smart bet is to consider them "objects made in India" and not safe functional firearms.

None of them is worth $700 to me. And neither are the "real" .303s, I scratched that itch with a WWI and a WWII model back when a good condition one was less than $100.

The days of "cheap" anything are gone when it comes to collectable guns, anyway. I wouldn't buy any gun sight unseen off the internet, unless the sale includes an ironclad inspection & return clause.
 
44amp I understand what a khyber pass copy is, I was trying to get info on easy to identify markings that can be picked up on through photograph. I am well aware they are not safe to shoot, and such I am not interested in one. The particular rifle in question only sold for 330 bucks and was advertised as numbers matching. I suspect everyone shared my suspicion, as I’m wary out of the gate of almost any numbers matching Enfield these days from what I’ve seen and read.

I do understand the reluctance to buy anything sight unseen from the internet. The fact remains, I am in the market for an Enfield (specifically a no4) and local options appear sparse. I also do not plan on dropping 700 bucks on an Enfield, but apparently to get much under 600 these days for a decent example requires diligence. I am happy you were able to scratch your itch when they were dirt cheap. Unfortunately I was not able to. Such is life, what can we do other than live it.
 
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