Anyone here load 44 magnum with gas check cast lead bullets

C

ciwsguy

New member
If so, what is your experience with them? I have a Marlin 1894 in 44 magnum. The bore slugs at .4305, so clearly I need .431 or larger bullets for this thing to shoot well.
Was thinking of loading up some .432 handloads to tighten the spread, but wish to maintain magnum velocity. Has anyone tried the gas check bullets with magnum loads!
If so what results or problems did you experience?
Inquiring mind wants to know.
Ciwsguy
 
I used gas checks when I loaded for .44Mag. I decided to try them in the hopes that I wouldn't have to scrub as much lead out of the barrel.

It did reduce leading a fair amount but not completely. It also gave slightly tighter groups and the most accurate powder charge was about a half grain less than without the checks. I wasn't running a chrono then so I have no idea whether velocity changed.
 
Thanks. So after using them, would you continue to use?
I’m inclined to go to them as my rifle shoots .429 and .430 factory bullets terribly as the spread is all over the map and I wish to use near magnum velocity. I don’t have a chronograph, so the only data I would have is load manual tables.
 
I have a load for Cast Performance 320 gas check bullets over H110 good for 1,341 avg from a 7 1/2" Redhawk. Have to load them long at 1.707, which may be a problem in your lever gun. Marlin microgroove barrels are said to do poorly with cast, but I don't have direct experience. How does yours do with jacketed bullets?
 
If you have a MicroGroove barrel,I have to tell you I don't know anything.Thats not a yes or no,its just I don't know.

I stared shooting 44 magnum with wheel weight bullets in the mid 1970's.
I never was one for the "mild target load"

I like shooting full power 44 magnum loads. I have a 32 H+R Bisley single Six for "mild target loads"
Whatever Hogdon said was max with H-110 s what we shot.
We did use bullets that fit the bore. .430/,431.

We loaded Keith type swc bullets mostly. There was a lighter bullet I believe was a 215 gr, ,then the Lyman 429421 240 gr,and later I was buying Lasercast 300 gr truncated cone bullets.

In all regards,IMO there is little to no reason to shoot anything but good,well fitted ,mdderately hard cast bullets in a 44 mag,45 Colt.etc.

My eyes are not what they were in the 70's and 80's. Checking accuracy with sandags under my wrists and resting the barrel,I fired a number of groups in the 5 inch range or so at 100 yds. Iron sights. All that told me was the gun/ammo combo would out shoot me. (RugerSuper Blackhawk)

Back then motor oil came in cans. The yellow Pennzoil cans were a favorite target. Sitting down,leaning against the truck,testing on the knees,we made those cans dance at 100 yds with regularity.I'm not trying t brag on my shooting.Its only medicre at best. I'm saying cast bullets do just fine.

I never had a leading problem. My mentor already learned many things.

I had a 2 cavity Lyman 429421 mold. At some point I decided Gas checks were a PITA. So I set up the mold in the Bridgeport and bored the gas check
feature out of the mold. Those bullets worked fine,even with full power H-110 loads.

One issue you will likely run into.The lever guns can be senstive to cartridge length. WWith that Lyman 429421 bullet,the ogive is a touch on the long side.As you must use the crimp groove,the COAL is a little too long with typical lever guns.

The meplat snags the chamber mouth and won't chamber,yet the magazine and lifter have fed the next round. Its a difficult jam up. One way out of it is to remove the mag tube cap at the muzzle.

The 215 gr Keiths fed fine and were zippy for velocity. I enjoy playing with the 300 gr Lasercasts. "Flying hammers!"

Sounds like you know about bullet fit. The only unknown(for me) might be MicroGroove.

Beyond that,go for it!! I just don't buy jacketed straight wall revolver bullets.

IMO,shooting cast bullets well is a major plus for revolvers. In my experience,they work fine in the lever gun companion pieces.

Gas checked,with good lube, I think concensus among the Cast Boolit folks is that with a well fitted ,wheel weight hard bullet,you can go 1800 fps + without trouble. As you try to get to 2000 fps,along the way things get shaky. Accuracy will probably fall off 1800 to 1900 fps.
 
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I have micro-groove Marlin

I shoot powder coated bullets. No leading and shoot great.
If I were to need jacketed bullet, I would shoot jacketed. Never been a gc fan.
 
My 1894 does not have microgroove rifling. It’s Ballard as it is a Remlin. Jacketed bullets print all over the map as I have determined I need .432 bullets which I have not been able to find (jacketed that is). Cast can be customized to larger diameter, so I suppose I’m forced to go with cast to .432. My understanding is if higher velocity is desired, one must use gas check to prevent gas cutting and heavy barrel leading. Polymer coated shoot better in my 1894 than jacketed or any factory load, but there is still room for improvement in my groups. I shoot on a rest with skinner peep sights. Mounting a scope didn’t show any improvement.
I’m going to give the MBW .432 GC bullets a try and see how it works out.
 
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Good luck with it. When you slugged the bore, did you feel any tight spots, particularly under the dovetail cuts? If so, they may need to be lapped out before you get the best accuracy. If not, the big bullets should do better. If the bore is extremely rough, you will build up fouling much faster than if it is lapped smooth.
 
After the initial hard to get an oversized lead slug to squeeze into the muzzle, no rough spots were noticed while pushing the slug thru the bore. The slug went smoothly thru the bore
 
Gas checks not only help with keeping bore leading at bay ... but the also help accuracy !
If your Marlin has the Micro-Groove rifling the Gas Checked .432" bullets should show an increase in accuracy over Plain Base . I load for 41 Magnum and 357 Magnum and am a firm believer in gas checks in magnum loads .
I've never used a gas check bullet in magnum handgun or 30 cal. rifle and the accuracy be worse than a plain base ... using a gas check always made the load more accurate .
I like your idea ... go for it !
Gary
 
I had to go to oversize (.432? ) lead bullets for my marlin. For consistent accuracy. Got them from CB bullets, a few years ago.
 
my understanding was always that gas checked bullets were recommended at or above about 1200fps, give or take a little, depending on the alloy.

Personally I would look at Matts Bullets here. https://www.mattsbullets.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=70 he has a number that should fit your needs. If I remember correctly, if you order 500 or more he can adjust that alloy to your specs, and I presume size how you want as well. I have been very happy with the bullets I have bought from him. Give him a call.
 
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Use a gas check, if pushing for maximum velocity.
.44 Mag in an 1894 will outrun plain base velocities quite easily.

When you slugged your 1894, what diameter slug did you start with?
Many people make the mistake of sticking a .430" "as-cast" bullet in the bore and then convincing themselves that it is ".430" or ".4305", when most of the 1894s actually have .431-.432" groove diameters.

In my experience, the majority of Marlin 444s and Marlin 1894s in .44 Mag need bullets sized to .433" or .434" if you are relying on oversize to reduce fouling. Not all chambers will accept cartridges loaded with bullets that large, however.

But, using the right alloy and lapping the bore can make .432" bullets perform very nicely - with or without gas checks.


I have a variety of .44s and 444s. Every one of them has its own special needs. For best performance, I cannot load for "the 44s" and "the 444s". I must load for each, individual firearm. The individual, not the group.
 
I only shoot cast bullets in my .44 mag. firearms which consist mostly of handguns. Bullets by choice are the Lyman 429421 240 gr. or the RCBS 44-250 SWC which is a slightly heavier close of the Lyman bullet. I also run the SAECO 240 gr. bullet which takes a gas check. Bullets all weigh out at 250 gr. in my alloy. I also have another gas check SWC that casts a hollow point bullet. All my molds with the exception of #429241 are four cavity.
I load all the bullets mentioned with either 22.0 gr. of 2400 or 24.0 gr. of W296/H110. Leading has never been a problem with any of he bullets.

I did at one time have a Marlin in .44 Magnum but it would not shoot any of those bullets at all, Accuracy was flat out terrible. I bought an LBT 240 gr. round nose flat point mold and while it would feed in the Marlin, accuracy was was terrible. (4 to 5" groups at 25 yards) No problem with leading though with bullets sized at .432". I shot some jackets .44 mag. ammo through the Marlin with no improvement in accuracy. I decided the rifle was defective and sold it to a gunsmith that wanted to see if he could fix it.

As far as Microgroove barrels not shooting cast bullets well, I've had two Marlin 336 rifles in the past and they shot very nicely at 100 yards with the Lyman #311291 sized to .310". Two inch groups on average if I used a scope.
Paul B.
 
Between my sons and I, we've had three .44 magnum Marlins...all had Micro-groove rifling and all had bores that mic'd 0.432"+. We've had good success with both Jacketed and Cast bullets with them, and without tinkering with the barrel bands, free floating the fore ends or glass bedding anything. Accuracy with factory ammunition (Winchester White Box 240's), runs less than 3" at 100 yds with peep or 2.5x scope.

For cast bullets we use gas checked designs: Lyman's 429244gc & 429215gc. We size them to 0.432" for the Marlins and 0.430 for our handguns: (3 Smiths & 4 Rugers). Accuracy is 2" or less at 50 yds, with a peep sight with all of the carbines. Alloy: wheel weights + a bit of tin to facilitate mold fill out (bhn 12). GC's: Hornady, annealed (heat them with a torch so they'll grip better when the bullet is sized.) We don't push velocity in loading, looking instead for accuracy which generally comes from 110 to 1500 fps muzzle in the Marlins. That's plenty for deer with a rifle...they're great plinking/practice bullets, but have plenty of penetration for hunting as well.

If you're having jacketed bullet accuracy issues with your Remlin .44 (despite the bore size) the gun is not set up right or there are other issues. All of our Marlins, (bore sized 0.432"+), will put 200 gr or 240 gr Hornady XTP's into 3 inches or less at 100 yds from bench. With these bullets, muzzle velocities run 1600 to 1750 fps...they're definitely not top end loads, but are proven deer killers out to 100 yds or so. BtW, Win White Box 240's clock 1700 in our guns (20" bbl's).

Lastly, with regards to cast bullets, use the largest dia. bullet you can get that will chamber in the gun. In our use, 0.432" does fine if you don't overly push to maximize the load. If you can't get 0.432" or larger gas checked cast bullets commercially, a smaller size may do if you keep the velocity down to 1200 or less. (Try 7.5 to 8.5 of Win 231 or Unique)

Also, with real Keith type LSWC's, the front driving band may hinder feeding. The best we've found to date is Lyman's 428215 GC...a 225 gr LSWC design. It feeds 99% of the time in two 1894's and my 336 (yep it's a 336 chambered in .44 Mag). This is our go to bullet for all of our .44's, rifle or handgun...great accuracy, economical in times of wheel weight scarcity, and casts like a dream. Given only one .44 bullet for all uses, this'd be the one. Alloyed 50-50 with pure lead/wheel weights and hollow pointed with a suitable mold or with a Forester Hollow Pointer, it will give spectacular expansion with a muzzle vel. of 1100 fps or more. Easy in handgun or rifle.

In any event, with any commercial bullet, whether for handgun or rifle, I strongly suggest re-lubing (Swirl method) with Lee Liquid Alox thinned out with paint thinner (1:3, LLA to PT). It'll help/eliminate leading issues. Pushing velocity with an undersized cast bullet is guaranteed to lead your bore. If you do get into leading issues, remove it with ALL COPPER CHORE BOY scrub wrapped around a well used bore brush.

Our experience is that with Marlin Micro-Groove rifling, you need to use a Gas Check, use as large a bullet as will chamber, and don't push for max velocity.

HTH's Rod
 
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I'm going through the same process currently in my Henry BB .44 Mag. I started in casting prior to my double digits, and at 64 I'm still at it. Probably close to 100% of my handgun shooting is done with cast loads and many of the molds mentioned prior I have and used over those many years. I even have some antique molds that are hollow points of the Lyman Keith molds that we still use.
Anyway, you'll want to size or shoot at least .001 over bore diameter when using cast and yes, I use gas checks on anything I'm gonna push beyond 1200 fps. Alloying lead, or using a harder mix, will net you larger diameters from the same mold. Pure lead from that mold will net you a heavier bullet, but a smaller diameter than say using linotype.....larger diameter, but lighter weight. I don't know if you cast your own or not, but it's food for thought. I normally use WW's with a pinch of tin (for mold fillout) for a good majority of my shooting, and if air cooled, they'll stabilize at 9 BHN avg. If I water quench those same bullets hot from the mold, they'll stabilize at 14-15 BHN after a week. Their diameter is slightly larger as well in relation to pure lead.

Hope this helps....
 
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