JeepHammer
Moderator
Part time or otherwise?
Helps write off costs of presses, cleaning equipment, work space, etc.?
Helps write off costs of presses, cleaning equipment, work space, etc.?
Anyone have a side business to help with reloading cost?
- Thread starter JeepHammer
- Start date
During the early to mid 90s my wife and I owned a small brick and mortar gun shop. That afforded me much equipment and supplies at reduced cost and some of the profits did find their way into reloading supplies and a few guns. 
While the business was doing well and growing it would not have been practical to leave our "real" or "day" jobs so we eventually sold the business. I still have much of the fixturing and tooling I bought back then.
Ron
While the business was doing well and growing it would not have been practical to leave our "real" or "day" jobs so we eventually sold the business. I still have much of the fixturing and tooling I bought back then. Ron
turtlehead
New member
I take care of the bookkeeping for a small business about 3-5 hours each month. Has paid for all my equipment and components so far. About 6 months ago it took a lot of hours to straighten out their books and procedures. Paid good money.
Liability insurance and government interference from all levels makes it financially nonviable.
Pretty good (and civilized) discussion about it here.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-422734.html
Making cast bullets might be viable though. Be a lot of local environmental ordinances though. Used to know a guy who did it up here.
Pretty good (and civilized) discussion about it here.
https://thefiringline.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-422734.html
Making cast bullets might be viable though. Be a lot of local environmental ordinances though. Used to know a guy who did it up here.
I sold co ax press shell holder jaw housings for a while.
Then I gave the drawings away to a CNC guy who still sells them.
It was paying me $2/hour.
I just wanted to prove I could do it.
I keep telling the man at Forster about it, but I think he just listens to be polite and will never incorporate my improvements.
Then I gave the drawings away to a CNC guy who still sells them.
It was paying me $2/hour.
I just wanted to prove I could do it.
I keep telling the man at Forster about it, but I think he just listens to be polite and will never incorporate my improvements.
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No, I never needed additional income to reload. I thought when I retired 15 years ago, I would have more time.
It turns out, retirement has caused me to be so busy I can't understand how I ever had time to work. There fishing, boat riding, shooting, auctions, antiquing, repairing antique clocks, traveling around, and etc. It gets hectic.
It turns out, retirement has caused me to be so busy I can't understand how I ever had time to work. There fishing, boat riding, shooting, auctions, antiquing, repairing antique clocks, traveling around, and etc. It gets hectic.
lamarw:
Strange but that is how it actually worked out. I really do not know where I found the time to go to work all those years. I find other retired guys at the range Monday through Friday to talk to and load ammunition at will. I like this lifestyle. Also fortunate in hat I don't need the extra to load and roll my own.
Ron
Strange but that is how it actually worked out. I really do not know where I found the time to go to work all those years. I find other retired guys at the range Monday through Friday to talk to and load ammunition at will. I like this lifestyle. Also fortunate in hat I don't need the extra to load and roll my own.
Ron
firewrench044
New member
I am retired and self employed as an NRA Certified Pistol Instructor
Most of my students are from the gun range I use
For taxes I write off many shooting expenses
Eye safety wear, ear protection, uniforms, boots, every 2 years a new pistol
and holster, Targets, reloading components and gear, range dues, mileage to and from the range, cost maintaining my Instructor Certification, A C&R FFL
( covered because it lowers costs for most of the above )( discounts every where )
I was questioned about these expenses
My replay was -- If you were at a gun range and looking for someone to instruct you for gun use, would you ask the guy that has bullet holes all over his target or the guy that is neatly dressed and groomed with holes in his target tightly grouped and has proper equipment ( you need the practice to
be able to maintain accuracy ) I deduct expenses for a variety of calibers
5,000 to 10,000 rounds per year
These business expenses were approved
It turns out I have more expenses than income from this business
per year helping lower my retirement income for taxes
( I have a good Tax guy ( also deductible ))
Most of my students are from the gun range I use
For taxes I write off many shooting expenses
Eye safety wear, ear protection, uniforms, boots, every 2 years a new pistol
and holster, Targets, reloading components and gear, range dues, mileage to and from the range, cost maintaining my Instructor Certification, A C&R FFL
( covered because it lowers costs for most of the above )( discounts every where )
I was questioned about these expenses
My replay was -- If you were at a gun range and looking for someone to instruct you for gun use, would you ask the guy that has bullet holes all over his target or the guy that is neatly dressed and groomed with holes in his target tightly grouped and has proper equipment ( you need the practice to
be able to maintain accuracy ) I deduct expenses for a variety of calibers
5,000 to 10,000 rounds per year
These business expenses were approved
It turns out I have more expenses than income from this business
per year helping lower my retirement income for taxes
( I have a good Tax guy ( also deductible ))
Stats Shooter
New member
I work a glory hole in Tiajuana to buy components,
tomingreeneco
Inactive
[Unless your "side business" is reloading, you can't write off any of those things for tax purposes. ]
You could say you are a part time shooting instructor, guide, bounty hunter, hired assassin, trapper - all sorts of things to write off reloading supplies at tax time.
Had a friend who drag raced and incorporated himself and wrote everything off. Never won enough to make any money from it, but it helped pay for is hobby.
You could say you are a part time shooting instructor, guide, bounty hunter, hired assassin, trapper - all sorts of things to write off reloading supplies at tax time.
Had a friend who drag raced and incorporated himself and wrote everything off. Never won enough to make any money from it, but it helped pay for is hobby.
50 shooter
New member
A friend got his FFL and started his own business making ammo and then retired. 2008 hit and he went back to work but still makes ammo, great ammo and great customer service.
I refer friends and co-workers to him all the time, he's loaded match ammo for me when I didn't have the time to do it myself. He mostly does smaller lots and that let's him put more attention into the ammo.
When he gets orders that are huge or the customer needs it quick, he has another friend of ours that's in the business also take care of them. He went from a couple 650's and a some older Camdex machines to 4 new Camdex machines and all the other equipment he started with. He does work for Hollywood, police depts... you name it. If his business keeps going I can see him buying some more machines.
So both are doing like Ron and you wouldn't believe the toys that both of them have. I like having friends like that because I get to use their toys and have someone load my ammo on the cheap if needed. I always pay but I get the friend discount, I don't want to take advantage of a good thing.
I refer friends and co-workers to him all the time, he's loaded match ammo for me when I didn't have the time to do it myself. He mostly does smaller lots and that let's him put more attention into the ammo.
When he gets orders that are huge or the customer needs it quick, he has another friend of ours that's in the business also take care of them. He went from a couple 650's and a some older Camdex machines to 4 new Camdex machines and all the other equipment he started with. He does work for Hollywood, police depts... you name it. If his business keeps going I can see him buying some more machines.
So both are doing like Ron and you wouldn't believe the toys that both of them have. I like having friends like that because I get to use their toys and have someone load my ammo on the cheap if needed. I always pay but I get the friend discount, I don't want to take advantage of a good thing.
Unless your side business is reloading, I don't see how you can write off equipment that is, at best, tangentially related. Did it slide through an audit? If so, you got lucky. I've also seen new clients try to deduct all types of things that are clearly not deductible even though they've done so in the past.
Let's take boots/clothing. You can't find the correct answer by simply revealing the results of your audit. It's meaningless. Tax auditors are often wrong or sometimes just want to close a case and will not scratch beneath the surface.
If you really want to know what is proper deductible, read Tax Court cases where an issue is highlighted and tested against authoritative sources such as the Code, regulations, revenue rulings, TAMs, previous court cases and the like.
There are an endless number of Tax Court cases where taxpayers have tried to deduct normal street clothing or footwear. In every case I've read, unless the clothing/footwear was altered in a way as to make it not practical for everyday use (steel-toed), it was thrown out by the court.
If you deducted boots and it survived audit, I'll submit it was because you got lucky not because it was proper.
Let's take boots/clothing. You can't find the correct answer by simply revealing the results of your audit. It's meaningless. Tax auditors are often wrong or sometimes just want to close a case and will not scratch beneath the surface.
If you really want to know what is proper deductible, read Tax Court cases where an issue is highlighted and tested against authoritative sources such as the Code, regulations, revenue rulings, TAMs, previous court cases and the like.
There are an endless number of Tax Court cases where taxpayers have tried to deduct normal street clothing or footwear. In every case I've read, unless the clothing/footwear was altered in a way as to make it not practical for everyday use (steel-toed), it was thrown out by the court.
If you deducted boots and it survived audit, I'll submit it was because you got lucky not because it was proper.
The whole business thing can get interesting. I am not a tax guru but when we had the shop I mentioned earlier we did file taxes and I want to say you could only claim a loss on the business three times in the first five years. The IRS (and common sense) would dictate that if you own a business the purpose is to make and not lose money. Sounds logical enough. Now is it a business or a hobby? The following quotes taken from here. The same information is available through the IRS website and other financial advice websites.
Something is either a business showing a profit or a hobby. The laws are pretty specific on what one can and can not get away with. A business or even a hobby cannot habitually year after year show a loss and as the saying goes write it off.
Consequences of hobby classification
Generally, the IRS classifies your business as a hobby, it won't allow you to take any losses. However, in certain limited situations you can use your hobby expenses to reduce your taxes.
So what it all comes down to is a business is a business and eventually must show a profit on which taxes are paid. A hobby is a hobby and you can't just continually "write off" your hobby expenses. The first few years of our gun shop we did show loss. There were legitimate business investments like lumber for making the gun racks, the security system, the bars for the windows and other things. However you cannot year after year claim a loss and use it as a deduction. The IRS is not that gullible.
Ron
Something is either a business showing a profit or a hobby. The laws are pretty specific on what one can and can not get away with. A business or even a hobby cannot habitually year after year show a loss and as the saying goes write it off.
Consequences of hobby classification
Generally, the IRS classifies your business as a hobby, it won't allow you to take any losses. However, in certain limited situations you can use your hobby expenses to reduce your taxes.
So what it all comes down to is a business is a business and eventually must show a profit on which taxes are paid. A hobby is a hobby and you can't just continually "write off" your hobby expenses. The first few years of our gun shop we did show loss. There were legitimate business investments like lumber for making the gun racks, the security system, the bars for the windows and other things. However you cannot year after year claim a loss and use it as a deduction. The IRS is not that gullible.
Ron
JeepHammer
Moderator
Well, not exactly what I was getting at...
I let the CNC machines crank out optics mounts, as a manufacturer for a retailer,
I've done the same de-milling military brass for a retailer.
That retailer just got bought out this summer, new owners are intending to do that processing themselves.
I have the machinery, and I think I'm going to retail de-milled brass since I have a Crap ton of it, and it looks to me like there is a reasonable profit to be made.
I guess I need to get hold of the BATFE and find out how much they want to let me sell brass... No primers or powder...
I let the CNC machines crank out optics mounts, as a manufacturer for a retailer,
I've done the same de-milling military brass for a retailer.
That retailer just got bought out this summer, new owners are intending to do that processing themselves.
I have the machinery, and I think I'm going to retail de-milled brass since I have a Crap ton of it, and it looks to me like there is a reasonable profit to be made.
I guess I need to get hold of the BATFE and find out how much they want to let me sell brass... No primers or powder...
Stats Shooter
New member
I have a small "farm", as does my brother. We file a schedule F which you use to expense certain items like sheds, tractors, mower, my truck etc. You have to show a profit 2/5 years and pay taxes on said profits.
If you file and wind up not showing a profit, but you write of hobby expenses, then not only will you now be a hobby, but you owe back taxes for all the ineligible stuff you expensed.
In the end, as it pertains to taxes, here is the best advice: if you get a bit liberal on deductions, you may get in trouble, but if you fail to report income, that is called tax evasion and is much worse
If you file and wind up not showing a profit, but you write of hobby expenses, then not only will you now be a hobby, but you owe back taxes for all the ineligible stuff you expensed.
In the end, as it pertains to taxes, here is the best advice: if you get a bit liberal on deductions, you may get in trouble, but if you fail to report income, that is called tax evasion and is much worse
Section 183 of the Internal Revenue Code works to deny a taxpayer losses not engaged into for profit. In theory, you could have losses in 10 straight years and have them all deductible if you meet certain requirements.
In an audit, the burden is generally on the IRS to prove that your activity was not engaged into with a profit motive. However, the burden shifts when the taxpayer claims losses in 3 of 5 years. In that case, the taxpayer would need to demonstrate they've conducted themselves in a business-like manner and that the business model can produce a profit.
Losses are not denied automatically because a taxpayer has them in 3 of 5 years. However, the business needs to be prepared to demonstrate what they've done to operate their business with profit as its objective. Did it advertise? Did it have a bank account separate from the owner? Are there assets within the business that have appreciated? Is there a business plan with projections? Has it been updated from the commencement of business? Is the nature of the business something the owner can derive personal pleasure from?
By the way, here is the 81-age IRS audit guide (called the Market Segment Specialization Program) regarding Section 183 for cattle and horse farms. Anyone owning such a farm should read this Guide very carefully as it will be used against you in the event of an audit.
http://www.unclefed.com/SurviveIRS/MSSP/a1farmls.pdf
In an audit, the burden is generally on the IRS to prove that your activity was not engaged into with a profit motive. However, the burden shifts when the taxpayer claims losses in 3 of 5 years. In that case, the taxpayer would need to demonstrate they've conducted themselves in a business-like manner and that the business model can produce a profit.
Losses are not denied automatically because a taxpayer has them in 3 of 5 years. However, the business needs to be prepared to demonstrate what they've done to operate their business with profit as its objective. Did it advertise? Did it have a bank account separate from the owner? Are there assets within the business that have appreciated? Is there a business plan with projections? Has it been updated from the commencement of business? Is the nature of the business something the owner can derive personal pleasure from?
By the way, here is the 81-age IRS audit guide (called the Market Segment Specialization Program) regarding Section 183 for cattle and horse farms. Anyone owning such a farm should read this Guide very carefully as it will be used against you in the event of an audit.
http://www.unclefed.com/SurviveIRS/MSSP/a1farmls.pdf
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