Anybody use Quik-shok?
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I always preferred a bullet that expands, yet holds together. Especially since there is always a chance that it may hit a limb and have to penetrate to hit and ebter the chest cavity. The only thing I use quik-shok for are varmints.
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"what gives a government that arms the whole world the right to disarm it's own citizens?"
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"what gives a government that arms the whole world the right to disarm it's own citizens?"
glockorama
New member
I use the 90gr +p+ .380 round in my AMT DAO. I haven't done any expansion testing, but it feeds well in the gun and is +p+ rated, so I imagine it will be be fairly effective.
glockorama
New member
It was at my local gunshop. Actually the box says +p, but the casings say +p+. I dunno which is correct, but I believe they are an effective load for the .380.
I use Triton 115gr.+P QS in my Keltec for my carry load. I`ve done some tests of my own on a variety of media as well as a few unlucky squirrels and ground hogs and I`ve been VERY impressed! What the 9mm+P QS does to a groundhog is unbelievable,you really have to see it to believe it. The tissue damage looks more like it swallowed a grenade than it go shot. Much more damage than 115gr.+P Corbons. Throw out everything you knew about wound ballistics with these things they have a totally different type of wound profile. For example the .22LR version from a 6" barrel will blow a grey squirrel almost in half with a side shoulder shot! Penetration through hard barriers is the same as a conventional JHP. Penetration in soft media is deeper than Glasers,more like light weight Corbons. Now if I can just find some QS for my .45. Marcus
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Now if I can just find some QS for my .45. [/quote]
Triton Pro Shop
I think they carry .45 QSs.
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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
Triton Pro Shop
I think they carry .45 QSs.
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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
Chad Young
New member
I have tried both 9mm 115 grain +P loads and 125 grain .357 Magnum loads into our ultra-sophisticated test medium (a bound plant-fiber cellulose-based media in 3-4" thick panels, sometimes called a "phone book"). In both cases, the bullet separated into three distinct channels, but did not go very deep, usually 1-2 panels of our test media. In both cases, though, the damage was amazing! It looked as though a shredder had gone through the middle of the panels.
This load may be a good alternative for those who do not like Glasers, but want a lower probability of over-penetration or ricochet.
This load may be a good alternative for those who do not like Glasers, but want a lower probability of over-penetration or ricochet.
I did some sophisticated testing too - of the wet phone book variety.
I was using 10mm loads, and tested the 155gr QSHP. Both times it broke apart as advertised, and really made a mess of the first phone book, but the second book about 1/2 way and into the third were just little slits where the lead frags went. The jacket was mangled.
I also tested the 125gr QS round in .38 and it pentrated a little less, but the damage was still awesome in the first book. Three frags seperated as advertised. For 10mm I like a conventional JHP, but in a .38, particularly a snubby, I like the QSHP.
Tom
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Don't Tread on Me
Why 10mm beats .45 ACP . . .
www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm
I was using 10mm loads, and tested the 155gr QSHP. Both times it broke apart as advertised, and really made a mess of the first phone book, but the second book about 1/2 way and into the third were just little slits where the lead frags went. The jacket was mangled.
I also tested the 125gr QS round in .38 and it pentrated a little less, but the damage was still awesome in the first book. Three frags seperated as advertised. For 10mm I like a conventional JHP, but in a .38, particularly a snubby, I like the QSHP.
Tom
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Don't Tread on Me
Why 10mm beats .45 ACP . . .
www.greent.com/40Page/ammo/10/10mm-advoc.htm
Everyone that has tested the Quik Shok on a live subject has been astounded at the damage that they see.
The round is so new that it has not gained enough people's faith. Maybe after at least a few real shootings with it, we will see how it works. I have not heard of any real shootings with them yet, although I imaginet hey exist.
The round is so new that it has not gained enough people's faith. Maybe after at least a few real shootings with it, we will see how it works. I have not heard of any real shootings with them yet, although I imaginet hey exist.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Red Bull:
I have not heard of any real shootings with them yet, although I imaginet hey exist.[/quote]
If I remember correctly Fernando Coelho (President Triton) and/or Tom Burczynski (Bullet Designer) have used QSs on Deer.
Both of them drop in on TFL when time permits from their buzy schedules. Maybe they'll see this topic and expound on their "tests".
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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
I have not heard of any real shootings with them yet, although I imaginet hey exist.[/quote]
If I remember correctly Fernando Coelho (President Triton) and/or Tom Burczynski (Bullet Designer) have used QSs on Deer.
Both of them drop in on TFL when time permits from their buzy schedules. Maybe they'll see this topic and expound on their "tests".
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Schmit
GySgt, USMC(Ret)
NRA Life, Lodge 1201-UOSSS
"Si vis Pacem Para Bellum"
Tom Burczynski
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by swatman:
I always preferred a bullet that expands, yet holds together. Especially since there is always a chance that it may hit a limb and have to penetrate to hit and ebter the chest cavity. The only thing I use quik-shok for are varmints.
[/quote]
SWATMAN:
Quik-Shok bullets don’t fragment when they hit limbs, plywood, etc. They only fragment _after_ they strike a fluid-based target.
Example: My brother, Dan, shot a 125 grain .357 round straight through the center of a 5/8-inch-thick maple branch and killed a medium-size deer 20 yards beyond. Total range was about 55 yards. The deer dropped, then tried to climb the slope it had been grazing on. It got about 15 yards, then dropped for good. The first lung was pretty messed up (3 holes), although nothing like the .44 round (see below) which didn’t strike a limb first.
Tom Burczynski
I always preferred a bullet that expands, yet holds together. Especially since there is always a chance that it may hit a limb and have to penetrate to hit and ebter the chest cavity. The only thing I use quik-shok for are varmints.
[/quote]
SWATMAN:
Quik-Shok bullets don’t fragment when they hit limbs, plywood, etc. They only fragment _after_ they strike a fluid-based target.
Example: My brother, Dan, shot a 125 grain .357 round straight through the center of a 5/8-inch-thick maple branch and killed a medium-size deer 20 yards beyond. Total range was about 55 yards. The deer dropped, then tried to climb the slope it had been grazing on. It got about 15 yards, then dropped for good. The first lung was pretty messed up (3 holes), although nothing like the .44 round (see below) which didn’t strike a limb first.
Tom Burczynski
Tom Burczynski
New member
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Schmit:
If I remember correctly Fernando Coelho (President Triton) and/or Tom Burczynski (Bullet Designer) have used QSs on Deer.
Both of them drop in on TFL when time permits from their buzy schedules. Maybe they'll see this topic and expound on their "tests".
[/quote]
Schmit:
For your entertainment and consternation:
QUIK-SHOK FIELD TEST My brother, Mike, took a deer with a Quik-Shok .44 Mag. round 3 years ago. He was using a 180 grain bullet traveling about 1400 fps (these can be driven to 1600). The deer was about 130 pounds. Range was approx. 40 - 45 yards. The deer was running full-tilt. It was somewhat of a raking shot. The bullet hit in the chest area (truly a great shot) and the deer dropped instantly and skidded for about 10 yards in the snow. It did get back up though, took three leaps and piled up. It was dead before Mike got to it.
The autopsy was a thing to behold. The bullet broke two ribs (a one-inch section was missing from each rib) but the actual ENTRANCE wound was about 2.5 inches by 1.25 inches! I took pictures. The most remarkable part was.....when the bullet fragmented, it blew the first lung right in half, the dynamics of which shoved part of it through the entrance hole! About two inches of the severed lung (approx. severed in half) was hanging out of the deer, the remaining section of that lung was dangling on the inside of the rib cage. Apparently, the energy transfer occurred so rapidly that it forced the lung tissue to flow around the segments toward the initial entry point. This is the same effect you get when you kneel down and fire into a one gallon plastic jug of water at close range -- the water flows around the bullet and blasts out the entrance hole in a wide stream right up your gun barrel (and all over you).
The core segments made 1/2-inch to 3/4-inch holes through the second lung and two of them made deep pockmarks in the far side of the ribcage. Because this was a raking shot, one of the segments skidded the entire length of the spine/loin area. The segments were dispersed in about a 4-inch circle through the second lung. The segments never exited the deer. We couldn’t even find pieces of the jacket. All the blood (there was PLENTY) was contained inside the deer since there was no exit hole, and the entrance hole was plugged with a section of a lung. Again, this was a very mild load, bullet speed was down because of the distance involved and the 10° ambient temperature.
In summation, even I was impressed with the results. Quite a few deer have been shot with .357 and .44 bullets. Many of them dropped like rocks and never got up. The terminal results were VERY impressive (and real messy), but I’d never seen part of a lung propelled through the entrance hole before!
The deer collapsing instantly was good - I just wish it hadn’t gotten back up at all -- but facts are facts. Quite a few of the other deer taken using the old design did not (interestingly, a lot of these were taken with the 125 grain .357 bullet traveling at 1450 fps). This INITIAL-COLLAPSE PHENOMENON is significant (and pertains to all high-energy-release rounds, not just Quik-Shok). It’s very important to law enforcement because it can buy a cop enough time to respond with a second or third shot. And of course it also allows a hunter the same advantage.
THE FOLLOWING PROVIDES INFO ON EIGHT DEER KILLED WITH THE 12 GA. QUIK-SHOK SLUG. ALL DEER WERE TAKEN IN NEW YORK STATE.
Field Test No. 1
Approximate range -- 35 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Jumped straight in air, collapsed.
Approx. distance traveled -- 0 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Bottom of first lung obliterated, bottom of heart severed, 2-inch holes in lung 2.
Field Test No. 2
Approximate range -- 25 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Staggered sideways, collapsed.
Approx. distance traveled -- 6 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- First lung severed into, 2-inch holes in lung 2.
Field Test No. 3
Approximate range -- 40 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Bolted at top speed, collided with oak tree, collapsed.
Approx. distance traveled -- 60 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Raking shot. Obliterated much of one lung, nicked bottom of heart.
Field Test No. 4
Approximate range -- 55 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Jumped straight in air, spun 180°, one leap down hillside, collapsed.
Approx. distance traveled -- 15 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Obliterated portions of first lung. Severed heart vessels, 1.5-inch holes in lung 2.
Field Test No. 5
Approximate range -- 20 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Ran in small circle as if confused and collapsed..
Approx. distance traveled --30 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- First lung severed into, 2-inch holes in lung 2.
Field Test No. 6
Approximate range -- 80 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Dropped instantly (died Instantly).
Approx. distance traveled -- 0 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Severed spinal cord in neck, three 1/2-inch holes in neck. No internal organ damage.
Field Test No. 7
Approximate range -- 45 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Collapsed, rose to feet and collapsed again.
Approx. distance traveled -- 0 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Raking shot obliterated bottom of one lung. 1.5” hole in heart, split liver.
Field Test No. 8
Approximate range -- 50 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Two leaps forward, bounded back to starting point as though confused and collapsed.
Approx. distance traveled -- 60 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Severed first lung and heart, 2-inch holes in lung 2. Blew section of first lung out through entrance hole.
Tom Burczynski
If I remember correctly Fernando Coelho (President Triton) and/or Tom Burczynski (Bullet Designer) have used QSs on Deer.
Both of them drop in on TFL when time permits from their buzy schedules. Maybe they'll see this topic and expound on their "tests".
[/quote]
Schmit:
For your entertainment and consternation:
QUIK-SHOK FIELD TEST My brother, Mike, took a deer with a Quik-Shok .44 Mag. round 3 years ago. He was using a 180 grain bullet traveling about 1400 fps (these can be driven to 1600). The deer was about 130 pounds. Range was approx. 40 - 45 yards. The deer was running full-tilt. It was somewhat of a raking shot. The bullet hit in the chest area (truly a great shot) and the deer dropped instantly and skidded for about 10 yards in the snow. It did get back up though, took three leaps and piled up. It was dead before Mike got to it.
The autopsy was a thing to behold. The bullet broke two ribs (a one-inch section was missing from each rib) but the actual ENTRANCE wound was about 2.5 inches by 1.25 inches! I took pictures. The most remarkable part was.....when the bullet fragmented, it blew the first lung right in half, the dynamics of which shoved part of it through the entrance hole! About two inches of the severed lung (approx. severed in half) was hanging out of the deer, the remaining section of that lung was dangling on the inside of the rib cage. Apparently, the energy transfer occurred so rapidly that it forced the lung tissue to flow around the segments toward the initial entry point. This is the same effect you get when you kneel down and fire into a one gallon plastic jug of water at close range -- the water flows around the bullet and blasts out the entrance hole in a wide stream right up your gun barrel (and all over you).
The core segments made 1/2-inch to 3/4-inch holes through the second lung and two of them made deep pockmarks in the far side of the ribcage. Because this was a raking shot, one of the segments skidded the entire length of the spine/loin area. The segments were dispersed in about a 4-inch circle through the second lung. The segments never exited the deer. We couldn’t even find pieces of the jacket. All the blood (there was PLENTY) was contained inside the deer since there was no exit hole, and the entrance hole was plugged with a section of a lung. Again, this was a very mild load, bullet speed was down because of the distance involved and the 10° ambient temperature.
In summation, even I was impressed with the results. Quite a few deer have been shot with .357 and .44 bullets. Many of them dropped like rocks and never got up. The terminal results were VERY impressive (and real messy), but I’d never seen part of a lung propelled through the entrance hole before!
The deer collapsing instantly was good - I just wish it hadn’t gotten back up at all -- but facts are facts. Quite a few of the other deer taken using the old design did not (interestingly, a lot of these were taken with the 125 grain .357 bullet traveling at 1450 fps). This INITIAL-COLLAPSE PHENOMENON is significant (and pertains to all high-energy-release rounds, not just Quik-Shok). It’s very important to law enforcement because it can buy a cop enough time to respond with a second or third shot. And of course it also allows a hunter the same advantage.
THE FOLLOWING PROVIDES INFO ON EIGHT DEER KILLED WITH THE 12 GA. QUIK-SHOK SLUG. ALL DEER WERE TAKEN IN NEW YORK STATE.
Field Test No. 1
Approximate range -- 35 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Jumped straight in air, collapsed.
Approx. distance traveled -- 0 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Bottom of first lung obliterated, bottom of heart severed, 2-inch holes in lung 2.
Field Test No. 2
Approximate range -- 25 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Staggered sideways, collapsed.
Approx. distance traveled -- 6 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- First lung severed into, 2-inch holes in lung 2.
Field Test No. 3
Approximate range -- 40 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Bolted at top speed, collided with oak tree, collapsed.
Approx. distance traveled -- 60 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Raking shot. Obliterated much of one lung, nicked bottom of heart.
Field Test No. 4
Approximate range -- 55 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Jumped straight in air, spun 180°, one leap down hillside, collapsed.
Approx. distance traveled -- 15 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Obliterated portions of first lung. Severed heart vessels, 1.5-inch holes in lung 2.
Field Test No. 5
Approximate range -- 20 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Ran in small circle as if confused and collapsed..
Approx. distance traveled --30 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- First lung severed into, 2-inch holes in lung 2.
Field Test No. 6
Approximate range -- 80 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Dropped instantly (died Instantly).
Approx. distance traveled -- 0 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Severed spinal cord in neck, three 1/2-inch holes in neck. No internal organ damage.
Field Test No. 7
Approximate range -- 45 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Collapsed, rose to feet and collapsed again.
Approx. distance traveled -- 0 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Raking shot obliterated bottom of one lung. 1.5” hole in heart, split liver.
Field Test No. 8
Approximate range -- 50 yards.
Animal Reaction -- Two leaps forward, bounded back to starting point as though confused and collapsed.
Approx. distance traveled -- 60 feet.
Damage to Internal Organs -- Severed first lung and heart, 2-inch holes in lung 2. Blew section of first lung out through entrance hole.
Tom Burczynski
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marcus:
What the 9mm+P QS does to a groundhog is unbelievable,you really have to see it to believe it. The tissue damage looks more like it swallowed a grenade than it go shot. Much more damage than 115gr.+P Corbons. Throw out everything you knew about wound ballistics with these things they have a totally different type of wound profile. For example the .22LR version from a 6" barrel will blow a grey squirrel almost in half with a side shoulder shot! [/quote]
Marcus,
No offense, but your observation on squirrels and groundhogs are consistent with the wound profiles from the Fackler camp. I read somewhere (MacPhereson?) about the way small animals blow up because their bodies are smaller than temporary cavity.
Hence any of the low grain high velocity bullets will devastate a small animal. Oh well, it's not like we're going safari hunting for pachyderms. Have to remember to Not expect the same results in humans. Human bodies are larger than the temporary cavities. Wont blow up there.
Regards.
What the 9mm+P QS does to a groundhog is unbelievable,you really have to see it to believe it. The tissue damage looks more like it swallowed a grenade than it go shot. Much more damage than 115gr.+P Corbons. Throw out everything you knew about wound ballistics with these things they have a totally different type of wound profile. For example the .22LR version from a 6" barrel will blow a grey squirrel almost in half with a side shoulder shot! [/quote]
Marcus,
No offense, but your observation on squirrels and groundhogs are consistent with the wound profiles from the Fackler camp. I read somewhere (MacPhereson?) about the way small animals blow up because their bodies are smaller than temporary cavity.
Hence any of the low grain high velocity bullets will devastate a small animal. Oh well, it's not like we're going safari hunting for pachyderms. Have to remember to Not expect the same results in humans. Human bodies are larger than the temporary cavities. Wont blow up there.
Regards.
Hehehehe 
yy,I agree of course that the same explosive results would not be expected on larger targets. But as I said in my post I have shot the same animals with Corbon and other name brand +P ammo of the same velocity and bullet weight and gotten no where near the same amount tissue damage. I really wasn`t specific enough about the nature of the wound profile(I didn`t wanna get tooo gory) so I can see how you could easily misunderstand. The wound channel is cone shaped and massive. Much of the tissue is actually shredded and blown out of the cavernous exit hole. The overall effect is similar to say a Corbon of the same weight but MUCH more so. As Tom said the results are "real messy". I`d guesstimate that the volume of tissue damage is roughly 3 to 4 times that of most deep penetration JHPs and penetration of the QSs in almost any test media or critter is deeper than a typical 2 legged predator is thick. Which *to me* is perfect. That`s why it`s my prefered carry load. Of course to each his own. 
Marcus
Marcus