Anybody have M1A problems?

Z

Zog

Inactive
Gentlemen,

My wife purchased a Springfield M1A-A1 Scout rifle for me (that's one of the reasons I married her). The first thing I noticed was that it took a great deal of effort to get it's tiny five round magazine in and out of the rifle (it was the only mag the gun came with). So, I purchased several 20 round mags from various companies (including U.S.A.). I also bought a Burris Scout Scope and rings.
Well, then the trouble started. First, I could barely get the tiny five round clip into the gun at the range, so I gave up and tried the various 20 round mags. These also presented a great deal of difficulty. None of the rounds would feed, the tip of the bullet would jam just below the opening of the chamber.

On top of that, I couldn't get the gun sighted in. Every shot and the scope would shake loose. I'd put loc-tite on the ring screws before we left. No matter how hard I tried to tighten them, they never seemed to tighten much (I was really cranking down on them, but they never got tighter). To make matters worse, the trigger had the worst trigger I've ever handled on a rifle (about seven pounds crunchy).

Now for my question. Is there any way I can get an halfway accurate, reliable firearm out of this gun without spending a whole bunch more money? It took my wife a couple of years to save up for this gun. I'm a little bit demoralized considering it's the most expensive gun I've ever owned, yet of all my rifles this one has the worst features I've ever seen.

Thanks for your input,

Matt
 
Zog, I would address this problem with Springfield asap. On first thought, I would say that the stock to receiver fit is not right. Short Mags are not the way the system was made to work either.

If you insert a full length mag even if it has been blocked down to 1/2 round you should be able to insert it and pull to the rear and lock it up!

Give um a call!

Hank

Mounts and optics are an entire "other story"
 
On your feed problems, make sure the "lips" on the top of the mags arent bent. When I first got my M1A it came with a 10 round mag that worked flawlessly. I then purchased a couple of 20 rounders and a 30 rounder that DIDN'T! After comparing them with the 10 round mag, I found that one or both of the lips were slightly bent out of alignment, keeping it from feeding properly. A flat piece of wood and a small mallet fixed the feed problems.
I'm not sure about your scope mount. Mine came loose after about 12 rounds, but M1As are notorious for this. I fixed mine by using a few drops of Lock-Tite.
Several hundred rounds later, I still haven't had any more problems with either the scope, mount, or mags.
The only thing I can tell ya' is call Springfield, they don't want you to have a defective product.

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Happiness is a tight group!
 
I made the error of buying a USA 20 rd mag for my M1A, and it feeds ok, but when the ole bute fires, the mag is so loose it drops down far enough to release the bolt lock, and she sits there wide open. Everytime you fire, you have to slap the mag back in and release the bolt. Oh well, it was only 20 bux. The factory 20&10 rd mags I have are great, they work flawlessly every time.

Can't help you with the scope part.

Good Luck. I wish you had as good an experience as I have...
 
Hi, Zog,

Hit me over the head if you want, but I'll ask the real dumb question. Are you sure you are seating those magazines properly? The M14/M1A mag has to be inserted front end first and locked, then rotated back to lock at the rear. If it is not fully locked at the front, the magazine will drop down and the rounds will jam trying to feed.

Jim
 
Jim,

No problem. Yes, I'm sure I'm seating the magazine properly. I had a Springfield M1A for years before I had to sell it. I really loved shooting it too, and got a lot of practice loading and reloading it.

I'd like to send it back to Springfield, but I can't afford the $100 it's going to cost to ship it and insure it (checked on that with UPS today).

Thanks guys,

Matt
 
If the magazines are fine, when the op rod is released from the locked position, does it forcefully slam home or is it sluggish?

Next, I check the rails that the bolt rides on to ensure that the bolt rides smoothly. Grease them a little (they should be anyway).

Check the receiver to ensure that the area where the magazine sits is cleanly casted. Try a GI mag and see if it inserts easily or not. I'd also try a function check without the stock on (try to rule out problems with the stock or the bedding). Also, by removing the stock, you can see whether the op rod is dragging (suggesting that it's bent or deformed).

If there's no problem with the bolt and the op rod going home, then I wonder if the jig used to drill the hole for the magazine catch was a wee bit off, allowing the mag catch to sit a mite bit too low? Or is the length of the mag catch too short? Or is the hole in the mag catch offset? Check the tension on the mag catch spring (does it allow the catch to snap back sharply? and does it hold a magazine in place - if you manage to get one in?)

Also, you may want to repost this question in the Smithy forum. We've got some real gunsmiths out there (unlike this gunplumber).

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Gary,

Wow! Now I have homework to do (my favorite kind). It seems that the stock is most of the problem. The inletting for the magazine is too small, interfering with the magazine seating correctly. On top of that, when I took the rifle apart it seems as though the receiver isn't sitting right in the stock either. Alan Tillman, a local gunsmith, lives close to here. I dropped the gun off to him this morning, and he agreed as to the diagnosis. We'll see about getting the stock fixed, which may clear up the other problems.

Thanks guys!

Matt
 
Your scope might tighten up if you degrease all the treads on the screws with alcohol and rap the driver a time or two once tight, will usually allow you some more turns, and use lock tite too.
 
Thanks! When the rifle gets back from the gunsmith in a couple of months, I'll give that a try.

I FINALLY got a response from Springfield. They indicated that because most of the problems I've had are with other people's accessories, they won't do anything about it. Namely, aftermarket mags and my scope and rings. When I rebutted that their factory 5 round mag didn't work, the person I talked to recommended I buy more mags (their 20 round mags are now $89 a pop!). As far as my complaints with the trigger, he said it's within "acceptable parameters." On that demoralizing note, I took the gun to a local smith (Alan Tillman) to see what he can do to make the gun workable.

This is the second gun from Springfield I've had that's a lemon. The first was their compact pistol model (1911 style, full sized frame, commander length slide). I won't bore you with the details of that fiasco, but I think I'm swearing off Springfields.

Matt
 
I have several M1A's, a SM, NM, M21 and a "loaded" conventional. I have only had one problem and that was a loose rear sight cover on my NM. I immediately called Springfield and they said ship it back. My local dealer took care of the shipping "gratis" (he sold me the SM, NM and the Loaded) and it was returned in 2 weeks with 3 extra 20 rnd mags.

I find your experiences very odd and out of charactor for springfield. They have always been very kind to me. Try them again and if they will not help, There are several books out on how to work on the M1A. I have one by Jerry Kuhansen (I probably butchered his name) and it deals with all of your problems.

Good luck on a fix and sorry to hear of your problems. I know I love my M1A's and cannot seem to get enought of them.

pete
 
Pete,

You're not the first person to say that. Springfield has a superlative reputation, but I think I'm suffering from a curse or something. I've had fits with S&W, Springfield, and a well-known knifemaker recently. If Alan doesn't think he can do anything with it, I'll call Springfield again and try to get them to take me seriously.

Thanks,

Matt
 
Zog

On thing to know is that springfield uses cast trigger housings not machined as the original usgi ones were. Ive have heard that some of these are terrible and could explain you trigger problems. You can get a used usgi housing for around 60 dollars from various people at gun shows or in shotgun news or a complete assembly for around $100 to $125. I would suggest that you get a usgi assembly and have a gun smith tune to and save the old assembly for parts. After all the day may come when we can't get them any more.
 
CMP may still sell them. William Ricca and Fulton Armory are also reputable dealers.

Suggest though that your see what improvements are made because of work on the stock before you start replacing that trigger housing. Isolate the problem, one step at a time.

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Gary,

I will keep a list of these dealers, and if fixing the stock doesn't work, I'll go from there. Good advice. Are machined trigger housings more durable than cast?

Thanks,

Matt
 
Old Springfield Armory (the real govt. armory closed by McNamara) was among the first to explore investment casting.

Casting is a viable method of fabricating parts. It allows for more intricate designs by the engineers without fear of costly tooling and machining. Like anything else though, it depends on the quality of the workmanship and materials used. Ruger does an excellant job and cast for other major manufacturers (including Sig-Sauer).

The advantage of machined metal is that there is less porosity since it begins as a solid block (as opposed to a poured casting). Second, the machining work hardens the metal.

While I can live with either, all things being equal (material, workmanship, durability), I'll take machined anyday. Like Art (one of our members), I'm just being a fogy about it.

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